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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| oasis wrote: |
| Nice to know people who know what they are doing argue with themselves. |
The question here is what I know I am doing totally wrong? 50/50? 
Torqued down and valves adjusted.
Ready to go back in the car. With different heads my tin required more fit fiddling.
I won the beetle in an ebay auction several years ago, with a lot of competition I placed my one bid eight seconds before the auction end. Total nerve rack. |
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GI Joe
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Athens, TN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:11 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| KAmes wrote: |
| oasis wrote: |
| Nice to know people who know what they are doing argue with themselves. |
...
I won the beetle in an ebay auction several years ago, with a lot of competition I placed my one bid eight seconds before the auction end. Total nerve rack. |
Agreed! I feel so much better now, knowing it's not just me and the voices in MY head, but there are others like me! 
eBay sniper master! Sometimes the only way to do it..... Although they've changed bidding a little in the last seconds, where it will go into "overtime" sorta.....
Can't wait to see it at KTE!
_________________
'74 Thing, "Our Thing"....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60
'71 Beetle RPU
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8080337#8080337
www.NLEOMF.com
Respect, Honor, Remember |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| GI Joe wrote: |
eBay sniper master! Sometimes the only way to do it..... Although they've changed bidding a little in the last seconds, where it will go into "overtime" sorta.....
Can't wait to see it at KTE! |
I had no idea about the ebay overtime thing, It's been quite a while since I sniped something. I used to do it a lot, I guess I haven't wanted anything bad enough for a while. It doesn't surprise me, I can see why they would do it. I'm really looking forward to KTE, it and the Midwest Tandem Rally (tandem bicycles) are the only vacation we have planned this year. The engine is back in the car now, just hooking things up. I hope it runs! (it will, for how long is another question) |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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You can't tell from the picture, but it's been running for a half hour now without making bad noises. Crisis averted (or suffered through) Yay!
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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In keeping with my recent practice of fixing things that were already done I decided to replace my loose right rear wheel bearings.
Speak of the devil here they are.
Here's the outer bearing. This is less than two years old. I've read there are poor quality bearings afoot, confirmed.
New bearings, spacers, seals.
Split the old bearing and used it to push in the new ones.
Finished. I was far too greasy to handle the camera more than this. This was the worst wheel. Now the drivers side is, so I'll do it tomorrow.
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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Did the left rear wheel bearing this morning, not quite as bad but similar damage on the bearing race. Sometimes I wonder if anything in China works.
Ok, I promise to stop taking apart major components until after Kubel Treffen.  |
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hobie16
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2013
Posts: 244
Location: Maui
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| KAmes wrote: |
| Sometimes I wonder if anything in China works. |
Just the money transfer from the US.
_________________
Don't be fooled by appearances. In Hawaii, some of the most powerful people look like bums and stuntmen.
--- Matt King
If anything’s going to happen, it’s going to happen out there.
---Captain Ron |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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I've been poking around the internet looking for ideas regarding post shut off heat soak bubbling the gas out of my 40IDF carbs. In a general google search I found some VW references to it, often with dual carb buses. It also seems to be a topic with Shelby Cobra people and Ford GT40 people using the same carbs. I read several threads in other forums detailing various attempts at fixes, heat shields, spacers, mixed results. They all say ethanol gas is the problem, too low boiling point, and many people use electric fuel pump cut off switches to run the gas down in the carbs a minute or two before parking. It's a workaround not a solution, but I decided to do this to at least cut down the gassy smell in the garage while I think about the problem. I changed to a single filter under the tank, then a tee for the heater rather than a separate filter for the heater and engine. The heater would sometimes lose it's prime and time out before finally getting fuel. The new configuration seems to be working so far.
After trying a holley pump that was rediculous loud, I went with a carter rotary pump from Amazon.
I have a nice CB performance block off plate that uses supplied allen bolts, but I discovered that one of the studs had been repaired with a heli coil so I decided not to disturb them and used this less pretty empi block off, works fine.
Switch under the dash. My fuse panel had a ready fused terminal marked fuel pump.
I followed a link from a cobra forum and found much thicker heat insulating spacers than the ones I have. If I try them my carbs will sit higher, preventing use of my push/pull linkage which nearly rubs the alternator now. If I go to the nice CB Performance hex bar linkage I have I'll have to move the fuel pressure regulator exposing rivet holes and unsightly damage that I had covered up (gasp!). If I use another shroud (which I have) I lose my Jerry's Bug Shoppe sticker. See how hard it gets when my priorities are unreasonable? It's almost enough to lure me back to a single carb, or maybe CB Performance's programmable throttle body injection system. Hmmm... |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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Kevin-
Which is the bigger problem...
Boiling off gas leaving the bowls dry for the next startup, or just stinking up the garage?
Is there currently any sort of insulating device between the heads and manifolds (or between the manifolds and carburetors) ? |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| mondshine wrote: |
Kevin-
Which is the bigger problem...
Boiling off gas leaving the bowls dry for the next startup, or just stinking up the garage?
Is there currently any sort of insulating device between the heads and manifolds (or between the manifolds and carburetors) ? |
Boiling the bowls dry for the next startup is no problem, especially with the electric pump turn the key and they fill right up. The problem is it drips on the floor. It bubbles up into the air idle jets and leaks out the progression holes onto the throttle plates then seeps out the throttle shafts (it took a fair bit of investigating to figure that out). I have aircooled.net's phenolic spacers between the manifolds and carbs, they delay the problem but it still gets there. John at aircooled.net said to try fuel injection spacers between the heads and manifolds. I have them but with them installed I can't get the spark plugs out because the manifold bases are really thick. I tried one then took it back out, I should have put them both in to see if it worked. They need longer studs so its a bit of a project. Maybe I should try milling the manifold bases thinner. I would probably buy an extra set of manifolds in case I screw them up.
Last edited by KAmes on Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kenj06
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2011
Posts: 198
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:34 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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What about making something like this?
http://www.coolcarb.com
Have seen plenty of these on other makes of cars at shows. |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:47 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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Kevin-
Are your spark plugs 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch reach?
The reason I ask is that my heads use 3/4 inch reach plugs, and I have been using spark plugs with the smaller 5/8 inch hex. I do it because I use a CHT thermocouple ring on one of my spark plugs, and the smaller plug is easier to work with. Maybe the smaller plugs would let you use the insulators under your manifolds.
Would it be possible to put the insulating plate between the manifolds and the carburetors?
Just throwing out some ideas; hope you can fix this, Mondshine |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:52 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| Interesting you are having this issue. I have 40 IDF's on the 2085 in my Baja, and 44's on the 2232 in my Thing. Neither of them have a boiling over issue, but I agree the fuel pump makes startup much easier after it's sat for a while and the carbs dry out. |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| kenj06 wrote: |
What about making something like this?
http://www.coolcarb.com
Have seen plenty of these on other makes of cars at shows. |
That's interesting, I came across other references to things like that that people had made. It's trial and error at this point, does the heat transfer through the metal, radiate off the heads, come up through the bore? Probably all three. |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:17 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| mondshine wrote: |
Kevin-
Are your spark plugs 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch reach?
The reason I ask is that my heads use 3/4 inch reach plugs, and I have been using spark plugs with the smaller 5/8 inch hex. I do it because I use a CHT thermocouple ring on one of my spark plugs, and the smaller plug is easier to work with. Maybe the smaller plugs would let you use the insulators under your manifolds.
Would it be possible to put the insulating plate between the manifolds and the carburetors?
Just throwing out some ideas; hope you can fix this, Mondshine |
I have the 1/2 inch plug heads. I remember the option when I ordered my replacement heads here recently, just went with same as I had not knowing any better. That is the problem, the plug wrench socket won't fit past the nut holding the manifold. Interesting about the thermocouple ring, as I have pondered getting one.
I do have insulators between the manifolds and carbs already, although I've discovered there are much thicker ones available. I'll just need to work out my linkage. I keep telling myself this is the hobby part of the hobby. |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| Bashr52 wrote: |
| Interesting you are having this issue. I have 40 IDF's on the 2085 in my Baja, and 44's on the 2232 in my Thing. Neither of them have a boiling over issue, but I agree the fuel pump makes startup much easier after it's sat for a while and the carbs dry out. |
That's the thing, I know these carbs are popular, so what's my deal? I do believe from reading many samba and non samba forums that it's happening to some people when they think they're having residual pressure and float problems, a stage I went through but have ruled out (it will happen with the fuel hoses completely disconnected, and I have visually observed the actual boiling). Everything appears to run cool when running, stock shroud, flaps installed and work well, deflectors installed. Carbs feel cold when running, become too hot to touch 15 minutes after shutting off. Some cobra people say it's a known thing with these particular carbs, they have trouble with the carb closest to the rear of the engine. These are the spanish webers, I wonder if there are some difference with the empis or others? Shutting off the fuel pump when I hit the end of the driveway is working, keeping the gas off the floor, but it doesn't feel like a fix. Something about my exhaust and head temps? now I'm really guessing. |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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I looked, and can't find any 16mm hex / 12.7mm reach spark plugs.
According to my Bosch chart, they would be F7BC (if there was such a thing).
This is not really a solution, but what happens when you prop open your engine lid as soon as you hit the garage? Maybe just venting off some of that heat would be the (an) answer.
When Maxine parks her TDI Passat in the garage, there are all sorts of fans and pumps that run for a few minutes after the engine is off. By the time they stop, the garage is up to about 120* |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| mondshine wrote: |
I looked, and can't find any 16mm hex / 12.7mm reach spark plugs.
According to my Bosch chart, they would be F7BC (if there was such a thing).
This is not really a solution, but what happens when you prop open your engine lid as soon as you hit the garage? Maybe just venting off some of that heat would be the (an) answer.
When Maxine parks her TDI Passat in the garage, there are all sorts of fans and pumps that run for a few minutes after the engine is off. By the time they stop, the garage is up to about 120* |
I've tried it, it doesn't seem to make any difference if I prop the lid open. The garage is central air conditioned too, always nice and cool in there.
Some kind of cool down fan like a modern car would probably do it, might be experimenting time. |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| KAmes wrote: |
| The garage is central air conditioned too, always nice and cool in there. |
I'm coming to your house to fix my car
Kevin-
I went back and re-read your earlier posts.
Are you still convinced that your pressure relief device is actually working?
How is your fuel pressure regulated? Is there a return line to the tank?
I wonder if a dump valve to release the system pressure at shutdown would do anything to help.
What about engine temperature?
I noticed you are using an oil temperature gauge, Are you still measuring oil temp at the bottom of the sump? What about CHT? My Thing used to run some pretty high CHT when heavily loaded (top down, freeway speed).
I also noticed some other carburetors early in your project. Did those old carburetors also boil over?
As an aside, after re-reading your posts, I realize the amount of thoughtful effort you have put into this car. I was "too busy" at the KTE to spend lots of time with anybody in particular, but I regret not spending more time with you. Guess we'll have to meet again.
Mondshine |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: My 181 project pics |
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| mondshine wrote: |
| KAmes wrote: |
| The garage is central air conditioned too, always nice and cool in there. |
I'm coming to your house to fix my car
Kevin-
I went back and re-read your earlier posts.
Are you still convinced that your pressure relief device is actually working?
How is your fuel pressure regulated? Is there a return line to the tank?
I wonder if a dump valve to release the system pressure at shutdown would do anything to help.
What about engine temperature?
I noticed you are using an oil temperature gauge, Are you still measuring oil temp at the bottom of the sump? What about CHT? My Thing used to run some pretty high CHT when heavily loaded (top down, freeway speed).
I also noticed some other carburetors early in your project. Did those old carburetors also boil over?
As an aside, after re-reading your posts, I realize the amount of thoughtful effort you have put into this car. I was "too busy" at the KTE to spend lots of time with anybody in particular, but I regret not spending more time with you. Guess we'll have to meet again.
Mondshine |
The pressure relief device has been removed, it was just an experiment never meant it to be permanent. I have one of the better holley regulators set at 2psi at the moment. No return line. I've run it up to temperature, parked and pulled the fuel hoses off the carbs and pulled the air idle jets and watched it vigorously spurt up the passages with no fuel supply, always takes about 15 minutes to get going. This matches up with infrared temp readings on the carb body. The sump plate temp sender didn't seem accurate so I switched to an oil galley sender that goes under the pressure relief valve. This seems to match up with the save-my-bug dipstick warning light pretty well. Hovers around 190 in town, 210 is about the highest it goes on the interstate if I prop the lid with a tennis ball, it will get hotter if I don't. A CHT gauge would be informative, probably something I should do. I live on a state highway, always a four mile run at fifty to sixty to get home. The old carbs were 35mm solexes, these did not cause any trouble, just that I could never seem to tune them to satisfaction. Sometimes they would smell a little fumy after a hard run but I never thought anything of it at the time. The new ones are really easy to tune and run really well too, just has this one glitch.
On our old split window bus we had years ago there was a device that went under one of the tin to head screws and hooked up to the oil light, like a dipstick warning except it measured head temp. Can't find anything like it now.
At KTE groups of people are always like that, you never feel like you get a chance to talk to everyone. Maybe next year! 
Gratuitous pic of our old bus, that's been a long time ago. Bought it for $900, sold it for $300 so I could buy an FJ40 Land Cruiser. Wish I still had either one, cars are always like that.
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