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Metal Fuel rails.. GoWesty? VanCafe? Others?
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Machinist wrote:
I always assumed the chamber was a sort of buffer to smooth the fuel flow and keep constant pressure. Otherwise the fuel rail seems superfluous. Why not just run the lines directly? I have read that hot-rodded 914s starve for fuel because the chamber is too small on the stock fuel rails.


The larger diameter header is just standard practice for piping design. It reduces stress at the joint between the branch line and header. If both were the same diameter or close, it would be more prone to cracking at the joint. The header should be 2-3 times the diameter of the branch. It has more to do with the physical properties of the material rather than flow.
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Snort
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Glad to see we are on the same page. Piping designers united, all stress issues please sit down.
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Mellow Yellow 74
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a pair of the GoWesty ones on sale. The Van Cafe ones look great and will definitely not leak but the GoWesty ones look fine too plus the spacing of the hoses look like they will line up with the injectors better than the original ones. The spacing on the type 4 ones look completely wrong to me.
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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
The larger diameter header is just standard practice for piping design. It reduces stress at the joint between the branch line and header. If both were the same diameter or close, it would be more prone to cracking at the joint. The header should be 2-3 times the diameter of the branch. It has more to do with the physical properties of the material rather than flow.


Interesting. Makes sense.
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tjet Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I though about getting metal ones, but my gas tank is plastic too.

I don't want my gas tank to worry that it will be next
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting rid of aged plastic parts is a very good idea...especially aged fuel system parts.

Change your...... Exclamation
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Merian
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why does the stock part have a flexy rubber diaphragm in one end?
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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merian wrote:
why does the stock part have a flexy rubber diaphragm in one end?


It is not what it seems.

From this thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=397212&start=40



That circular piece on the end of the stock part is a plastic plug crimped on with a metal ring.

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in all honesty....... They did say "Minor Assembly Required" Smile

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Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at the fuel rails, specifically at the GoWesty Logo and thought...... That will buff right off!

Um......
No.......

It is acid etched or sandblasted into the fuel rail!

The wire wheel removed the color but the Go westy logo van is still there, etched into the Aluminum......

Back to plan A.....
Upside down installation!

Dave
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
GW's logos are usually stronger than the part it is on....and that is a pretty indestructible part.
Laughing
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

It is acid etched or sandblasted into the fuel rail!

That part was anodized then laser engraved.
The blue DIY that 61scout listed before is a air manifold.
http://www.amazon.com/Interstate-Pneumatics-FPM44S-Aluminum-Rectangle/dp/B002RRRIOK
Just two extra plugs than the GW one. Wink
When I saw those in the store fuel rail was my first though.
61scout did you get those blue fuel rails in?
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TheAndante wrote:
Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
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61Scout
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

70coupyel wrote:
djkeev wrote:

It is acid etched or sandblasted into the fuel rail!

That part was anodized then laser engraved.
The blue DIY that 61scout listed before is a air manifold.
http://www.amazon.com/Interstate-Pneumatics-FPM44S-Aluminum-Rectangle/dp/B002RRRIOK
Just two extra plugs than the GW one. Wink
When I saw those in the store fuel rail was my first though.
61scout did you get those blue fuel rails in?


No, I have yet to try them out, they're going on an RJE 2.3 engine I have for my '86 westy, but I'm working on building a transmission for that engine so I can swap them both at the same time. I have full confidence they'll work without issue. The only caution I'd give is to make sure the air manifolds are clean. When they arrived from China I had to do a bit of deburring on the inside and washing to get all the aluminum flakes out.

EDIT: Here's the link to the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843USU2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Despite the description of having 7 holes, the one I received only had six. Two on the long ends and the 4 holes along the one side. So there was no hole on the backside. Either way, easy enough to plug them up.

Kevin
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adv rider
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

661Scout wrote:
EDIT: Here's the link to the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843USU2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Despite the description of having 7 holes, the one I received only had six. Two on the long ends and the 4 holes along the one side. So there was no hole on the backside. Either way, easy enough to plug them up.

Kevin


I think I will try these too, when I change my fuel lines out. Did you just put a brass plug in the unused end? Or a fuel pressure gauge?
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Last edited by adv rider on Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Merian
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx - that is a very interesting assembly. It does not look cheaper to manf. than some other way to seal the end.

So, why use a plastic plug crimped on with a metal ring and maybe a rubber seal in there also...??
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61Scout
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="adv rider"]EDIT: Here's the link to the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843USU2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Despite the description of having 7 holes, the one I received only had six. Two on the long ends and the 4 holes along the one side. So there was no hole on the backside. Either way, easy enough to plug them up.

Kevin

I think I will try these to, when I change my fuel lines out. Did you just put a brass plug in the unused end? Or a fuel pressure gauge?


Well, I just had plugs lying around from various projects, but they're cheap enough. I like hex plugs because they give a cleaner finish overall.

Here's some: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCS-1-4-NPT-Brass-Intern...mp;vxp=mtr

Or if you want to go into the plug business: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-50-1-4-Male-NPT-Rec...mp;vxp=mtr

On the one end you can see I added a pressure gauge. All the other extra holes on the rails are plugged. The gauge itself is installed with a 90* elbow and the gauge screws directly into the fitting for an all metal connection. I just wanted to have a permanent gauge set up to keep an eye on the fuel system a little easier. It's entirely unnecessary. The gauge does add a bit of weight also, so if you go that route be prepared to build a bracket of some sort to hold it up.

Oh, if you're asking if there needs to be a gauge on the other side the answer is no, it would be the same pressure anyway. Besides there's no room to see it on that side with the air cleaner in the way.

-Kevin
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Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=

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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried some cheaper plugs on ebay. Tested the first one and it leaked. Sent them all back.
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey 61scout, I like the gauge, makes trouble shooting things one step easier. Any worry about the it being the new weak point in your fuel system?
-d
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Well in all honesty....... They did say "Minor Assembly Required" Smile

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Dave


Some assembly!
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Merian
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of $$ per unit materials cost.

And, this time there is little design or engineering work done.
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