Author |
Message |
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Grind it Down! |
|
|
Weld/grind all day..
We'll let the pictures do the talking (for a change )
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Looks good there clatter. Way to work that pan!
- Is there seam sealer in its future?
- You just doing the outer portion or both sides?
- What's the plan to cover it with? _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
MonT3 wrote: |
Looks good there clatter. Way to work that pan!
- Is there seam sealer in its future?
- You just doing the outer portion or both sides?
- What's the plan to cover it with? |
Such a tough call!
Part of me wants to use regular old body-work filler and high-build,
Block it out,
And take it to a booth to be shot with the same black as I have everywhere else.
It's likely to be pretty fragile, and will look nasty after some use,
But easy, and cheap, and done!
However,
The devil on my shoulder says to get it blasted,
Body-work it with that Metal-to-metal filler,
Then take it in to power-coat.
It would be a lot tougher that way,
But,
Dag.
What a PITA! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Looking good Steve. The pan is really taking shape now. I think I'd weld it up from the inside, then metal finish it as best as you can, then take it over to your "blasting girl" and have her blast and powder coat it.
But personally, I'd probably blast where I welded it, then seal it in epoxy, then all metal it (or metal 2 metal), then seal that in epoxy, then paint and clear coat. I've done that on a few pans now (minus the all metal/metal 2 metal part), and have had very good results. I also live in the salt belt, so rust is very common for me to see. But then I do like PPG's epoxy primer (DP series) for sealing bare metal. It's been working for me for over 25 years, so I'm not about to switch. Besides, I'm not completely sold on powder coat, especially after seeing Dan and Neena's engine tin after 3 years of being in NYC. For something that's supposed to wear "like iron", I've been results from a can of Krylon. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1423 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
X2 what Bobnotch said, _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
That pan is looking fine! I'd get it powder coated since ppg dp epoxy is expensive! It only cost me $400 to get my pan and subframe powder coated. $400 is what is costs for a gallon of the ppg dp epoxy with two quarts of activator. Then you'd have to factor in the price of the base and clear. Thats just me though... _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: Happy Fathers Day!!! |
|
|
And another Whole Day!!!
Here's a bunch of rambling prattle,
And a bunch of semi-comprehensible pics..!
Here, in the "Who Cares" department...
Documentation!
In the very top pic in yesterday's post above, you can see the reinforcement plates for the front mount area.
Made those out of heavy-gauge stuff for good measure..
Notice the 'L' one has this odd gap behind it.
Had to do some opening-up and fabbing of a filler plate to get it properly closed up.
This washer needs clearance through it's range of motion.
Got it all sanded - need an 'after' pic..
Flipped the pan over - looks like I got some good penetration.
Was going to add some stitch-welds to this side, but it doesn't even look like it will need it?
This shows how the Gerson pans have a bit of difference compared to OG.
Where the tunnel part meets the pan, it's different enough, that a slit needs cut, and the groove 'pinched in' to get it closed up.
Maybe next time I do one of these,
I'll lay down filler pieces (plates?) to keep it from being pinched in, and keep it all smooth/flush.
Also note some stitch-welding for extra reinforcement vs. just plug welds.
Same thing with some grinding done.
Started plug-welding in the rear seat bulkhead.
Been dreaming of getting this stupid thing done for years!
Flipped it back over again, and plug-welded in the bulkhead from the other side.
Got to drill thru from the bottom along where the battery hold-down clamp is in the way from above..
Also filled a bunch of pin-holes.
Bunch o' little spots to chase down with the welder..
Dreams Really Do Come True!
Finally, I doused it all with a bunch of dilute phosphoric acid and called it a day.
Here it is drying in the sun..
There's still a bunch of metal-finish grind/sand/smooth work that could be done,
But I'm not sure exactly how fine i'm going to finish it all out at this point.
Plus, it's time to change it up a bit, and do some more body stuff.
Maybe a front clip, even?? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Another day..
Detail pic of the front reinforcement plate thingie.
It usually is just tacked on with huge, blobby welds in the corners.
My OCD made me stitch-weld the whole thing and grind it smooth.
Started too early in the morning to do LOUD work,
So some seat-track fitting was quiet enough.
Like so many things on this car,
It all goes pear-shaped as soon as you start in..
Notice the gap?
The rail is tight to the pan at the front end.
With the plastic guide rails in place, it all fits tight and snug;
This is giving me the exact fit.
For some reason, the seat sits all caddy-wompus to the pan.
Totally beyond me how this could all get so crooked....
Both sides do the exact same thing; high at the rear..
The rail on the center tunnel isn't bent, and didn't get moved.
Because both seats have the same issue, and measure out about the same, it has me totally baffled.
Maybe they are just built at the factory crooked like that,
And that's why these seats are always so hard to slide??
Anyhow, I'm all ears if anyone has ever seen this one before... WTF?
On another note,
Damon came by with a friend;
One of my heroes from the old days; Mark Stephens.
The Type 4 engine builder from the 90s - MSHP.
He's probably done more type 4s than anyone on earth, even today!
He brought some parts to show, and we shot the bull about the old days.
Forged piston prototypes that went on to become the AA pistons we all use today:
Straight-cut steel/steel timing gears for type 4.
My 2270 motor would love a set of these just for the sound...
It was good to pull parts out of my stash,
And pick the brain of a guy who used to be tooled up for the big time..
He does have some great stories to tell!
Anyways,
Got my torsion bars.
CIP had a free shipping sale deal where these China bars were like $150.
Couldn't resist.
Went with 26mm...
Started doing up the nut plates for the lower front sub mount.
They will need moved closer in to the tunnel for my app.
The whole seat-track thing had me pissed off.
So I cut out, and went and surfed with my youngest.
Was home all morning ignoring him, what for a stupid crooked car, with more issues than Britney Spears.
Hope I don't regret this project big time when they are grown up and gone.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Steve, you might want to look in the Blue Bentley (in the back of it (body section)). In there is a "seat frame mounting jig". I believe the dimensions are given for constructing it. That might be what you need to fix your "pan issue". _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
|
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Dang, I made one of those seat mounting jigs. Used it to mount my seats rails and threw it away cause I needed the space....I could've shipped it to you! _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Decided to sleep a few weeks on those seat mount brackets;
Even with a jig, the elevation being wrong on them would still be a problem.
Had some friends over this weekend,
So I didn't do any weld/grind LOUD work.
Did do a significant step, though.
You'll recall where I left off last time:
Getting these as tight to the tunnel as possible...
Have to then locate the holes in the pan, and the lower mount bracket/plate.
Ken (Thanks Again My Brother!) was there, to not only help me flip the pan over on the cart umpteen times,
But also back things up when I was drilling through.
(Don't hang around me too long, as I'll try and put you to work! )
Have to get all of the holes in a nice exact pattern..
Want to pick up all of the holes from the stamping reliefs,
as the edges of the piece are all irregular, and not good to pull a number from.
(If that makes any sense)
At the end of it all,
I might duplicate the factory part in how it is narrower at the front.
It's a trapezoid shape vs. my rectangular one here..
Might weld the front two holes shut, and pinch the front of the bracket in some.
Maybe.
Until next time,
Progress is progress! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:16 pm Post subject: Progress Is Progress |
|
|
Progress is Progress...
Here's a full day for ya:
Started out with deciding to move the front two holes in the mount plate closer in like I said I mighta before...
That took a while...
Also did a bunch of finish grinding;
Welded up all of those little slits in the small upper mount plate parts,
Drilled some new bolt holes, and a buncha plug-weld holes.
Then I chased pin-holes, and ground and ground until I got hungry and went and ate/picked up the kid..
And,
Well,
Kinda gotten sick of weld/grind (it was hot out),
So I went to Morgan Hill and got another fender.
And that took the rest of the day...
Here's the results of a whole day; a mount plate and fender.
Can you tell the two front mount bolts are now tighter in towards the tunnel?
It's actually a milestone of sorts;
I'll be using this never-been-monkeyed ugly fender to locate my front clip.
Once the clip is welded on, then I can fit my thoroughly-monkeyed-with pretty fender to the correctly-located clip.
Was at an impasse with the fender _and_ clip being so fusked-with, that where any/either of them was really supposed to be was indecipherable...
Bla bla bla!
Progress Is Progress!
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
|
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Looks very nice! A lot of thought into these mods. Is that little mound exposed from the tunnel going to cause you some issue for the shifting rod possibly rubbing on your bracket you just bolted on? Is there enough clearance there? _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
MonT3 wrote: |
Looks very nice! A lot of thought into these mods. Is that little mound exposed from the tunnel going to cause you some issue for the shifting rod possibly rubbing on your bracket you just bolted on? Is there enough clearance there? |
Hi Monte,
Thanks for the props.
It all fits, swear to God... Been test-fitted at least three dozen times...
Once this last piece of the 5-speed puzzle goes together,
I'll take a few pics of it all assembled.
With any luck, it should work/fit like the factory did it. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject: Progress |
|
|
Been out of town for a while;
Got back all fresh n' ready..
Decided to go with some 411/412 pre-heater boxes;
Because it doesn't really get that cold here,
And they're light.
These should keep the windshield clear on a cold day, right?
Plus,
Since I'm using Vanagon, Bus, and 914 engine tin pieces already,
Might as well include the 411 too!
Took a couple of after-work evening sessions and finished the lip around the lower front mount plate:
Used a couple of big thick washers as a mandrel around the corners.
Been thinking/tinkering about this piece for a long time!
If it wasn't so windy, I mighta done some welding..
But,
Progress Is Progress!
Thanks for tuning in folks!
Something interesting is going to happen here eventually.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Hardly Nuttin' To Show!! |
|
|
Whoa!
Like a bit more than 11 hours today!
Nuttin' to show for it hardly, though...
Here's the deal...
Mocking up, and getting things where they go:
Was all ready to start tacking things together,
and I done forgot that I didn't get the weld-thru first.
So I had to knock the spots apart and lay down the weld-thru.
(lightly of course)..
Dag, you gots to just kind of walk things into place.
One thing makes another not fit,
Heat makes things warp,
Once things are the slightest bit crooked, those two long bolts will never start!
After many hours of detail grinding with the Dremel.
(Yeah I know dumber than dumb)
The bracket mount dealies go into place.
Just to keep it fresh,
I chased around a bunch of flaws with the fine-grit Roloc.
Want it to look sweet after powder-coat,
Not show a bunch of sanding scratches and grinder grooves.
Pinholes and the whole pinhole chasing nonsense, ad infinitum...
Finally, at the end of a whole very long day,
It's like, um, ready for powder?
Save for the seat rails, and a final mock-up, of course..
Praying it all fits like it's 'sposeta...
Don't look like much, eh?
A big, big day; Flailing like a madman! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Walter64 Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2013 Posts: 146 Location: Sydney
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
What a alot of work and an awesome job to boot _________________ VW fan & Real Estate Agent at www.argyproperty.com.au
66 RHD teak T34 karmann |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Brent Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010 Posts: 1613 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Are those straight cut gears SCAT? I remember a post some time ago where Jake mentioned the Pauter gears were ok. I kind of like the sound and would probably use them myself. _________________ 69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
'Walter64', Thanks for the kind words;
Really appreciate it.
Nice to see that someone is still following this.
It's gotten really dry lately - tons of the same floor-pan pics over and over.
I know that I'm pretty sick of it at this point, myself...
Brent,
As far as I can tell, those straight-cuts are a one-off run that MS had made.
IIRC, that's what he said.
They still have a lot of burrs and rough edges.
They'll need detailed by hand, or tumbled, shot-peened, or..?
Crying for the REM treatment..
Want to fit a set and check the concentricity and backlash before I get too excited about them.
There's bunch of them, but all prototypes still IIRC.
Dunno if you remember that guy, but,
For a type 4 fan like me, it's pretty special.
It's like having Gene Berg or Dean Lowry come by for a beetle motor person..!
For the record, he had nothing to do with West Coast Core.
He was in LA for a while before he got out of the biz.
I'm starting to nag Jim to get done with a couple of cases he has at his shop.
They are getting the line-bore and deck done.
After that, they will go to vapor blast locally.
One is for my 'final' bus motor, and the other is the 2270.
Also want to have my trans case bare for vapor, too.
(And the fasteners to Oregon for cad plate)
Once the 163/86b (?) comes in, the bottom end should be ready to go together on the 2270.
Because I'll need the 2.0 914 plug angle for the DCNF linkage to work,
Those nice 2.0 heads I was planning on using on the 2270 will have to go on the 2056.
Hoping that it won't be a 'waste' of them to use them on the 2056.
What with the heat exchangers and 'mere' 494 cam..
The cylinders on the 2056 will have to be chopped down to get the deck right using the 2.0 914 heads,
And Bob had a stroke,
So it's kind of scary having him chop them down now.
His edge ain't as keen as it once was, dig?
Just China AA, but still...
Anyways,
That means I'm going to take one or three sets of these head cores and do one up with big valves.
Still 2270/96 bore, so maybe 44x36? 44x38?
The 96 cylinder might shroud the flow enough to diminishing returns vs. 42x36.
Heavier valves also float easier..
Was going to try and copy Jake's 'Torquer' and use a 163/86b and 42x36,
But,
having a huge exhaust makes me want to go big.
Especially with revs.
Maybe get a 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 step header?
MS was willing to come by when the 2270 goes together.
Can't wait!
He was saying how he's all about retarding the cam a few degrees to make more power upstairs.
With a set of those adjustable straight-cuts different settings are infinite.
My mind has been wanting that 2270 to spin hard!
Now I'm sitting on the fence with cutting for dual springs and a Web 494..
I think I'm gonna do it.
Gene Berg is whispering in my ear from the grave..!
Anyhow,
Bla bla bla..
If any one out there took the time to read this, (and can even understand it) and has anything to add, please chime in...!
WWND ... What Would Nate Do?? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1423 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
|
|
Nice to see you still grinding and not biking. Looking good cannot wait to see it all shiny black. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|