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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Thanks for the tip, Erik.
I have that exact HF spoon.
Made a couple of long-handled ones out of old copper pipe, too.
That part of the my car to SO thin, and the wind.. It's maddening..
Anyways,
Got me another 'day'..
And, I kinda feel like I caught a break for a change(!)
Started out by doing hovercar, getting the body onto the roller pan, and checking a few fits..
Took an extra straight door I had and hung it.
Gaps tell the (sad) story..
So,
I did what I always thought I woulda..
Bolted the body down _tight_ all the way 'round to the roller pan,
And,
The 'Ol "Tie 'er To a Tree"!!
One come-along on the driver's side pulls that side of the dash forward.
Another come-along, on the other side, keeps the car from just moving sideways because of the first come-along pulling..
The (Cheap China leaky) Porta-Power pushes forward from the bottom/rear of the pan, forward against the lower A-pillar...
And my home-made trammel-bar keeps track of progress.
Oh, and I beat the SHIT out of it with the BFH..
(But protected it with wood - kinda)
'Trammel bar' tells a story of success!
Couldn't wait to go and check it out..!
Hung the clip and all the remove-ables,
And even spend a bit straightening out the left front fender that had a big boot mark in it for some reason...
Pics tell the story..
Really just barely started to tweak fits and hang the LF fender and frunk lid, When I got "Yelled Off" of the project...
While it doesn't look like it's time to weld the front clip down YET, it's a lot closer than before.
Can't wait to sneak out there and see if I can't actually make it that time already...
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1423 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Well that tree works the best. And you wanted a tire swing, now you have a frame straightening thing-a-ma-jig. Looks great. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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gavs Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2014 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Clatter wrote: |
Thanks for the tip, Erik.
I have that exact HF spoon.
Made a couple of long-handled ones out of old copper pipe, too.
That part of the my car to SO thin, and the wind.. It's maddening..
Anyways,
Got me another 'day'..
And, I kinda feel like I caught a break for a change(!)
Started out by doing hovercar, getting the body onto the roller pan, and checking a few fits..
Took an extra straight door I had and hung it.
Gaps tell the (sad) story..
So,
I did what I always thought I woulda..
Bolted the body down _tight_ all the way 'round to the roller pan,
And,
The 'Ol "Tie 'er To a Tree"!!
One come-along on the driver's side pulls that side of the dash forward.
Another come-along, on the other side, keeps the car from just moving sideways because of the first come-along pulling..
The (Cheap China leaky) Porta-Power pushes forward from the bottom/rear of the pan, forward against the lower A-pillar...
And my home-made trammel-bar keeps track of progress.
Oh, and I beat the SHIT out of it with the BFH..
(But protected it with wood - kinda)
'Trammel bar' tells a story of success!
Couldn't wait to go and check it out..!
Hung the clip and all the remove-ables,
And even spend a bit straightening out the left front fender that had a big boot mark in it for some reason...
Pics tell the story..
Really just barely started to tweak fits and hang the LF fender and frunk lid, When I got "Yelled Off" of the project...
While it doesn't look like it's time to weld the front clip down YET, it's a lot closer than before.
Can't wait to sneak out there and see if I can't actually make it that time already...
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Awesome to see Steve, see, doesn't that feel better?! at least you get to work on yours, as infuriating as it might be. |
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Notch Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Lodi, CA
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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So happy to see its coming along. Progress is great. _________________ '64 Notchback
'67 Bug
(sunroofs both)
1964 Lavey Craft, Flatbottom V-Drive, 406 Ford |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Now that's REAL progress Steve. Good job and GREAT work.
Now go have a couple of cold ones and get a plan of attack for finishing the front clip. It's looking good!! _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Thanks guys... Really feels good.
Funny,
Been thinking about the whole 'Tie it to a tree' technique for months. (years?)
Reminds me of that movie 'Revenge of the Nerds';
I was thinking about it so much for so long...
When it came time, it just happened, as the picture in my head was crystal clear by that point, dig?
Link
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Damn! Only a dude on some heavy beers could come up with that scientific contraption. No really, it's badass to come up with that. Mega resourceful on the tree, pulleys, cabling, clamps and persistence to manipulate what you want done!! You go the results and that's awesome so now weld that thing up and get some paint on it! _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Yesterday I got to sneak a few hours in.
Trying to find the right driver's door...
The one that came with the car was extensively tweaked to fit.
The super-straight one I have has rust pin-holes all along the bottom.
The one on the car now is super straight, but is a later '68-up..
Then. I found this blue one..
It had two big creases fixed back in the day;
using the old drill/slide-puller technique.
It was thick full of Bondo, and by the time I got it stripped down, I'd written it off as junk.
Now,
After my straight door ends up rusty,
It got another look...
(Most) all of the repaired area is easily reach-able from behind(!)
It's otherwise a really nice door and not rusty or bent at all.
So,
Nothing really to lose, I gave a shot at repairing it.
There are more than a few old bodyman tricks i'm missing here for sure.
But it got the holes welded and ground and smoothed,
And a head start at hammer/dollying it.
Maybe some shrinking disk and more tap-tap nudge-nudge, and it'll come around?
Something I wouldn't a had a prayer of doing two years ago, that's for sure...
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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racoguy Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2010 Posts: 687 Location: new zealand
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Aint it funny how things line up once things are straight!
You don't need fancy frame machines, simple tools and a tape measure.
Good work. _________________ https://www.facebook.com/pages/West-Worx/460154187360186 |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: More and More Mock-Up |
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Happy Memorial Day weekend, everyone!
Got side-tracked with a little project on Saturday...
Not a Type 3, so i'll move on,
But at least it's not a Beetle!
Saturday night the urge to take two little guys up to Sac was huge!
How cool to let them rally around on their 50s while I did the Bug-O?
Damon even called wanting to take one of his kids, too.
Alas, after working all day on the trailer project, we were just running low on ambition - Sac is over 3 hours from here..
Anyways...
Had the pan on the stand, trimmed and tested fits;
Need to move the left (driver's) side pan forward.
Trim this edge:
Make it so this back gap can open up:
Can anybody verify this fit for me?
This is an upper-rear corner of a fender as it meets the cowl..
The end edges of the hood are kind of square?
The corners of the hood don't flow around?
Anybody got a pic?
Do I have my fender too far back?
Or does this flow like so?
After driving myself nuts with fits,
I pulled all of the remove-ables,
(including moving the front clip again)
Did hovercar,
And stabbed the real pan underneath for fitting (again )
Started a couple of the body-to pan bolts, left them loose, and was able to nudge the body around on the pan, while scoping out how the holes all line up.
There's a LOT of variation in how those holes line up!
They certainly gave themselves a lot of 'wiggle room' in manufacturing these two most major parts of the car.
Couple that with aftermarket pan halves, my shoddy pan alignment/welding work, and a formerly crooked car,
And the opportunities for error are endless...!
Nonetheless, after climbing around and under, sighting holes, checking fits, and nudging around with the rubber hammer,
The ribs in the floor pans line up, while the body mount bolts are (mostly) pretty centered in their holes, and the pans are otherwise lined up and straight/square..
And a parting shot:
I decided to sleep on it before sheet-metal-screwing the left pan into place.
I'll look at it all again here on Monday.
This is one I don't want to screw up (again)..
Now, with the car sticking out like that, it's starting to rain...
Progress is progress!
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Link
Well this life is one big automobile
Fifteen days under the hood
Sometimes it’s hard to believe it’s real
Fifteen days under the hood
Well I’m way down here with my feet in the air
I got grease and oil all in my hair
It’s getting so bad, I’m starting to swear
Fifteen days under the hood
Well I’m awful hungry I wish I had some beans
Fifteen days under the hood
I spent all but a dollar on valvoline
Fifteen days under the hood
I’m lucky I saved a buck to get something to eat
Too bad I’ll spend it later
On wheel bearing grease
A cop just told me to get my car off the street
Fifteen days under the hood
Well I went downstairs I put on my good pants
To go to the junkyard for a vacuum advance
I was just climbin’ into this shirt
When I remembered I couldn’t go
Because my car don’t work
Let me tell you friends what’s wrong with me
Fifteen days under the hood
I just dropped the crank shaft on my knee
Fifteen days under the hood
I got water in my oil and the London flu
Burnt valves, vapor lock, worn brake shoes
I got those dead-battery-broken-fan-belt blues
Fifteen days under the hood
Well I’m trying to get this accelerator cable free
Fifteen days under the hood
Andy Granatelli’s on the radio for S.T.P
Fifteen days under the hood
I’m looking for the flashlight for the timing chain
I just skinned my knuckles and I’m in great pain
It’s awful cold and it’s starting to rain
Fifteen days under the hood _________________ Bus Motor Build
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1423 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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_________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1423 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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I hope this helps. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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eyetzr wrote: |
I hope this helps. |
Yes! Exactly! Thank you thank you.
Haven't seen those parts together in so long I forgot what they look like! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: Almost Caught Up |
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Welp,
Got me another DAY!
Was thinking about 'Evilgtiguy' and his build..
Figured i's throw a few Gerson pan install details in;
(at least my interpretation/mutation).
Here we have evidence of my multiple test-fit missions;
After getting the pans trimmed to fit the tunnel as best I can figure,
We climb under the car, with the body sitting on the tunnel, to fit the pans.
Starting/tightening all of the body-to-pan bolts, to jig/align, self-tapping sheet-metal screws then attach the pans to the tunnel.
Hard to get right, lying on your back, and holding them up to align, while screwing them in place!
The first time (first couple of times) I had some holes drilled and screwed,
but those didn't quite fit perfectly.
Next time, after more trimming and adjusting, a different fit made different holes.
So here in the above pic, we have some old, wrong holes with "X"-es drawn through them.
Other, correct holes have circles, and an OK, written by them.
But,
After another test-fit showed some more adjustment was needed, the red pen came out and some lines were drawn pointing to the final holes.
With multiple test-fits and adjustments, and on-and-off-agains, you gotta keep track of which holes actually are the ones that line up correctly before you weld them down!
Clear as mud, right?
Got the front sub-mount clearance-hump welded back in, only a smidge further back, so it will line up now that the pan got brought forward..
Something else to look for with these pans: The back of the tunnel's front frame-head area, by the main four mount bolts, needs trimmed back.
Here i'm not yet finished, but this illustrates the trimming, and how much.
The reason this needs trimmed is here - there is a recess, where the pan is stepped, to make the mounting surface flush.
Didn't see this until I flipped the pan over, and already had this thing stitch-welded down. Had to get a bit creative in my cutting..
Little scab-strip at the rear of the pan - shows how much I moved the pan forward.
Something to watch out for when welding in the wind..
Putting the nozzle too close to the work fills it with slag;
Making things even worse.
(sorry for the blurry pic - camera wouldn't catch it)
Gives you crappy, crispy, volcanic-rock-looking porous welds:
Weak, yet super-hard, and a PITA to grind all piled up like that..
A before and after shot of cleaning the nozzle..
Here, at the bottom, you can almost hear me cussing as the blobs pile on.
Moving on upwards after cleaning the nozzle,
The welds look like they are supposed to;
Laying down flat and shiny, penetrating well, and easy to grind.
A section I got finished!
Not much to look at here in a pic, (Looks like crap, here, actually) but this is really flat, and should smooth out nicely with some sanding and filler.
FWIW, I'm using .030 wire here on the thicker pan metal, instead of the .023 typically used on body panels.
With my (Big 220V) Miller 172, I have the power set on #2 instead of the usual #1 used on the thinner body metal.
However, I'm upping the feed rate to about 45 or so, to avoid having holes burn through.
With thinner metal, on setting #1, I use a feed speed of around 35.
When you feed the wire faster, it makes the weld a bit 'colder' relative to a slower feed.
There's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 power setting, so my upped feed rate kind of compensates.
Got to move quick though! And that's Ok..
Before I got too carried away with tacking the driver's pan on,
It had to get one more test-fit before welding it down for good and final.. (Tuesday)
Ugh. How many of these already?
Anyhow,
Now I'm getting somewhere with the pan like I shoulda been all along.
It's been a six-month (at least) set-back re-repairing the side-swipe from so long ago.
(and more still to go),
But,
It finally feels like we got some forward progress...
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Way to go! You found out the same problem I had with the front of the pan after I had tacked it all together. What I did to line up the pans and tunnel was to bolt the tunnel and rear subframe to the car while it was on the body stand. Then I bolted the pans to the car. Of course, I had to modify the location of the holes to fit the tunnel, some of which was off by over an inch. Then I marked the cut line on the pans to match the tunnel. After I cut and fit the pan halves to the tunnel I tacked it together, removed and fully welded her up. It wasn't too difficult, just time consuming.
One other part I had difficult time fitting together was the rear portion of the pan where it meets the tunnel on that triangle brace where it meets the body. The Gerson pans were a little small so I had to cut and stretch it out to fit my tunnel. Honestly, the Gerson pans were awesome to work with since they were made of nice thick material. _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:37 pm Post subject: Pans Welded Down |
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Got most of a day today..
And a mission was on.!
Started off by plucking the pan and getting it up on the cart.
Put up some tarps to keep the wind at bay;
my 'welding booth'.
Sheet-metal-screwed the parts down, then tacked right by them.
(then pulled the screws out)
Laying some bead..
Cleans up nice with the flap-wheel.
Got the bottom mostly all welded,
And about half-way ground down.
Going to be a PITA to grind all of my front mount area pretty..
Long way to go with grinding - but gives the basic shape I had in mind for this.
It won't show, but... My retentivity won't let me be..
Big day today. Waited a long time to be able to do this part!
Happy! Happy! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Looks great!! Congrats on the good progress. _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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I got that same camo tarp! Bought it from home depot on sale. Although, i use mine to protect the garage floor when I paint. hahaha
Good job on those pans! I used a 90degree die grinder with a small 2" roloc disk with 40-80 grit paper to get into the tight nooks. Works awesome! _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
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