Need advice on a condenser problem.

Glenn · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject:

He's running a Bosch 010 so the condenser has a short wire that connect to the points. Then there's another wire that runs from the distributor to the coil.

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I've restored thousands of distributors that are this way and no one has ever had a problem with the condensers. About 5 years ago Bosch moved the production of the condensers from Germany to Turkey. There has been no reports of any issues with the ones made in Turkey.

BTW... the original wire that runs from the coil to the distributor was 16.34" long. (don't ask why i know this).

In my 40 years of working on VW's i've seen very short wires, very long wires and everything in between. I've even seen the condenser mounted on the coil and not the distributor.
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Fred Winterburn · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject:

Most of that oscillation occurs after the spark has extinguished. If you replace the points with a Pertronix for example, that characteristic Kettering oscillation on the trailing end doesn't exist yet the spark duration is just as long providing it isn't clipped off short to increase the dwell as with the Pertronix II. The length of the points lead wire should be kept short rather than be an antenna for emitting rmi from the arcing at the points gap, but the difference it makes when compared to the overwhelming influence of the coil inductance is miniscule. Fred

slalombuggy · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject:

nsracing · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject:

Just trying to make sense what you people are proposing. Did this engine get built w/ ungodly compression that it is preventing the spark from coming through?

I mean, God damn.... did you just build this engine to run w/ so much freaking compression beyond what available fuel can support that the arc does not even come across?

Come on now. You gotta think about what you spew out here to even make any sense. I mean just how much freaking compression are we talking about that the arc does not go across??

Yea, I will question how much you know about electricity. The condenser had been changed 3 times and yet none has even known if the last one was dead.

If the condenser is not showing infinity, then it is dead. Otherwise it is fine.

Troubleshooting should be systematic. Not random to whatever piece you want to change out. That is not troubleshooting.

I have built some high compression motors running stock ignition and they fired fine. So I am not getting what is the issue w/ the compression w/ this engine that the arc is not going across.

If you input some idea, better support that w/ verifiable events.

This guy w/ 69 posts cannot seem to support his claim that high compression will inhibit an electric arc to come across the electrode in the spark plug. YOu would have to flood the chamber w/ fuel for the arc not to come across. You are talking at least 60,000 volts!

royraison · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject:

modok · Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject:

???? That guy is quite the character. Smaller gaps are used all the time with turbo or high compression. But how could an engine idle with high pressure?? potato in the tailpipe?? IMO yous guys both got potatos in the tailpipe

anyhow, though of another thing. If the connection from the coil to +12 volts is poor, or the vibration of the engine is wiggling something, ect.......causing some kind of intermittent connection on the + side of coil, that might be able to kill the condenser too. I bet having the coil wired backwards could also cause it......maybe. I used to know that.............

nsracing · Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:38 am Post subject:

yea, but my feedback says nothing about electricity though. YOu are NOt getting off that easy. So where does it say anywhere that high compression will inhibit the arc from going across the plug gap?

You know I will hang this tire over your neck and light it. Laughing

When you jump into a crowd, you gotta make sure how much of your own ass you want to keep.

I am loving this already. Another wannabe...

nsracing · Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:40 am Post subject:

Alright...what is the difference between high compression and high cylinder pressure?

Please do explain....

cannot wait..

morymob · Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:45 am Post subject:

slalombuggy · Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:36 am Post subject:

I wasn't agreeing at all that this is the OPs problem in fact I highly doubt it unless he is running pro-stock engine compression. I agree it is probably coil issue.

We only have to look as far as top fuel engines to see the need for outrageous voltages (and amps) to light spark plugs. I am by no means saying our little engines have anything in common with them but it does illustrate the reason why they have arc welders for ignition systems. High cylinder pressure + dense charge = need for more current to light the candles, even with a super volatile fuel......At the other end, a lean charge also requires higher coil output because the spark cannot jump the gap as easy. Basic pre-employment trade school teaching that we watched on a scope and saw raster patterns change as the fuel mix changed.

brad

royraison · Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:23 am Post subject:

ralf · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject:

was this ever resolved?
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Rustforlife · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:12 am Post subject:

Glenn · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:14 am Post subject:

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW

I finished rebuilding a German SVDA and thought I would try the last brand new Bosch condenser (turkey) with German Blue coil. After 2 months and several thousand miles it failed. Put my POS empi 009 clone backup and got home.

The whole point of me using points and condenser was that they used to be reliable and trouble free. Looks like I will be going black box sooner than I thought.
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Rustforlife · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject:

Juanito84 · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject:

Well let's see here. When the points open the voltage spikes and the condenser absorbs part of it so that the voltage doesn't spike more than a couple hundred volts. It would seem that:

A. There is not enough resistance on the coil primary, which causes a higher current through the coil, which causes a higher voltage spike, which kills both the condenser and points.

B. The condenser was built with a low voltage tolerating insulator between it's poles that quickly desinigrates under the normal voltage spike.

C. The condenser was build with a low capacitance that causes a higher voltage spike that kills the condenser.

D. Aliens are messing with us.
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BDSBSS23 · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:42 am Post subject:

Bringing this thread back. I have a very similar problem with the 010 distributor. It has been restored recently and yet 2 condensers burned out within 4 months... I would suspect it's electrical problem? Perhaps bad ground? Where should I start looking?
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NUG637 · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:39 am Post subject:

I bought a glen ring 010 for my okrasa 36hp. Was running on a 009 befor hand with thousands of trouble free miles. Within a few months of bolting on the 010 I went through condensers like underpants... First thought it was a fuel starvation issue then thought it was plugs, leads, points... Finally I changed the condensor and she was good as new again... For about 2 weeks befor it to fried. Went through this about 5 times before my 010 took prime position on the shelf while the 009 went back into the engine bay just so I could drive the thing... Don't no what the problem is but a friend with a 1904 went through the same thing befor going to magnaspark and never looked back


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