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1958 A T2 coupe restoration
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jan_t4
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roy, thanks for your help. Sounds good, if KK have it - hopefully on stock and not with production time. Let's wait and see, what pictures and offers we get. Will let you (and everybody else here Very Happy ) know, if I have an answer. Will send you my private email on PN.

Thanks, Jan
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jan_t4
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the time while the front fenders are away to fix the lower edge of the left and right trunk panels, which are really bad mostly.

Lower edge ist rusty and needs to be replaced ...
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... cutted away the lower edge to fix with an angled metal stripe. The upper inner edge is solid and already new - upper edge of battery box side wall.
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... welded ...
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... inside view ...
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Same procedure on other side ...
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... upper area as well.
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Some final Primer to protect the surface. After some final layers of underbody sealer (much later after colour job), nobody will see this repaired area.
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jan_t4
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new front repair panel between trunk panels have to be adjusted and welded in place.

This is an old picture, but shows the panel where is has to go.
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Cut the panel in 2 halfes, because it was easier to adjust it with the nose panel mounted and fixed to the body. Easier to take out, reform, grind, ... and finally spot weld in place to fix position.
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Important to adjust and fix everything with the nose panel and fenders in place.
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The "red" half has to be longer for 20mm on the outside, because the front edge of codriver trunk panel was too rusty and thin. Fixed everythin in place ...
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... stamped some welding holes to lower edge and fixed with metal screws ...
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... and finally welded.
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After some grinding and Epoxy-Primer ... ready.
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Still missing the "deck lid opening tube" and bracket for lower lock base.
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roy mawbey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan,

Nice work that front trunk inside looks great. I still have not heard from KK but I have copied the article in the Classic Porsche magazine below. Will give you an idea of what they look like. If Sportwagen are using them its a good sign they work well as Sporteagen produce some very nice 356 restorations,
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Roy
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jan_t4
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roy, did not hear anything from KarmannKonnection, yet. I don't really know how these guys make their business, if they do not answer a customer request for 1 week? At minimum I would expect a short email "we are too busy", "we are on holidays", "we have to check these parts, ...." - whatever. This would be okay, because they don't have to stop their business for my request. But nothing is too less.

I ordered some parts at CSP (Custom Speed Parts) on Monday morning and these parts already arrived on Tuesday morning - less than 24 hours. You always get an email, who is working on your order, you get an email with shipping details and tracking number and normally, the parts arrive after 1 day if you pay online. Their "in-stock" status is updated every several minutes for all the parts, so you can be sure that the parts are in stock generally - that's customer service!

I think I will build a special tool and make the wheelarch myself. That makes me more independant and 90GBP + shipping is a good amount to start building my own tool. Want to continue with the fenders, so I need wheelarches soon.

Jan
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roy mawbey
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Jan, I also have not heard from them. It probably means their delivery would be excessive as well.

Sorry to hear that . I reckon you might well be abe to produce something yourself. The process of wiring is interesting though if you loojk at the youtube clip.

Cheers

Roy
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jan_t4
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not get any reaction from KarmannKonnection yet. Roy did not get any further answer from KK as well. I got an answer from Roger Bray, but he doesn't has them in stock and have to order them at a special body shop. This will take too long for me, probably.

So I decided to build the wheel arches by myself. This makes me more independant. I viewed the Lazzee-video several times (thanks Jacks) and it should be possible to build the wheel arches by myself. Building by myself I would save around 250€ comparing to KK-price including shipping. I decided to buy a used bead roller machine (which I ever wanted to have) and found one 150km away for 100€ with some additional tool sets to modify for my use.

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I modified one of the additional tool sets to similar shape like Lazzees tool set. These "rolls" are really hard and not able to turn the uppper tool-wheel on my turning machine (Drehbank?). So i had to grind it in form, which ist the reason for the unequal surface . But this is unproblematic, because the "working rolling shape" was already there and is really smooth and hard. I just had to grind down the rear area. Let's see, how it works.
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I painted the welded fenders with Epoxy as well.
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Jacks
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, Jan. You're on a roll! Wink
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roy mawbey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan,

Like your style Jan, You are correct your ' lathe' (Drehbank) cannot turn the hardened rollers. I reckon you will manage those wired panels even if it takes some practice. Look forward to seeing your results!

Roy
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Jacks
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For turning hardened pieces in a lathe, you can attach a hand held grinder with a temporary fixture, or even just hold it by hand against the spinning part. Very smooth surfaces can be obtained. Cool
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roy mawbey
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jack, knowing Jan from his exploits the next thing he will buy will be an old working cylindrical grinding machine Cool

You are right though, it is possible to adapt something but you need to be very careful indeed using that.

Roy.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roy and Jack, you are right, I already grinded it turning the bead roller machine manually and holding an angle grinder in the other hand, which was less dangerous than trying it on the lathe.

While waiting for the deep drawn sheet metal panel for wheel arches, I used the time and checked missing parts.

I need front and rear "ornamental strips" for the inside of the car at the lower glass edge. I found names like "ornamental strips", "Garnierleisten", "Passierleisten", ... Don't know what the are called exactly.

I think there are different versions for A and B/C models, isn't it? What is the difference and is is possible to convert from B/C to A - if necessary? Are front and rear versions different? Are they painted in body colour for A-Models or wrapped with synthetic leather like the inner door panels?

Does anybody know where to get these and what are they worth?

Thanks for your help, Jan
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roy mawbey
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan,

Not really sure what you mean? Do you mean the internal ' door garnish rails' sometimes called ' door cappings' ?

These items are the red rails shown just below the glass on the 2 photos attached.

The maroon type colour on mine is original and was supplied with the Meissen blue bodywork. Silver cars had the same colour as mine as well. My car has original red upholstery and red interiors seem to have the red garnish rails fitted.

Later cars like the C had a fabric covering to the garnish rails.

I cannot say for certain the garnish rails for A B and C are all the same length. I would think they are but its guess.

For the A its not usually the case they are painted the same colour as the bodywork. Although the factory seemed to supply to customers needs.

Possibly Jan this is not what you are talking about? If not send a photo to explain.

I have not seen these items in spares books I have. KK are making them for speedsters with the special ferulls for the side curtains. I would try the breakers.
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The garnish rails on the doors are different on B/C cars due to the small vent window, but could be easily modified to accept the longer felt strip for the single piece A window.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roy, yes these are the ones I'm looking for. Looks like they are fitted with 2 small screws, one on each end for the front doors. Is that all?

Okay Jacks, so the B/C ones seems to be different at the front area (right of pictures), where the triangular vent window is located. I found these pictures on ebay (from vintage_porsche_parts). Is that the difference between A and B/C model?

A-Model (holes for screws to the front end)
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B/C-Model (holes for screws end at beginning of vent window and looks like there is small step in the metal edge)
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What about the rear ones below the rear quarter windows. Are these identical for A and B/C models or different? How are these rear ones fixed the body?

Thanks, Jan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan,

Yes the A version front door garnish rails are secured with just the 2 screws you can see on my photo. The rear ones have never been removed I guess from the day they fitted them in the factory. Without looking possibly in my factory workshop manual I can't for certain tell you. ( I think there is a metal tab at the end where it goes next to the firewall but my memory could well be wrong )

I bet Jack can advise though Wink

Roy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan, you posted on page 10, Sept 12th. The 4th photo down on that post shows where the front part of the rear garnish rail is held in place with a very small self threading sheet metal screw (like a wood screw) that goes through that tiny hole, near the crack at the top of the lock post in your photo. The rear is held by a small vertical tab that Roy mentioned. For some reason my computer can not retrieve the photo. Evil or Very Mad Sorry. IIRC, the ABC rear rails are the same, with preA being different. I would have to check on that to be sure though.
You are correct on the differences of the front pieces.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to ebay, I found the correct "garnish rails" for A-Models for front doors and rear area. In total less than 200 Euro for all 4 orignals is a really good price - especially because the front ones are original A-model ones without the vent window specials. I'm happy an some further progress is done. Have to clean, sandblast and paint them.

Jan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan,

You did very well there on buying those cappings Surprised

Roy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last weeks I was really busy, so just little progress on the Porsche. But I brought my bead roller machine to the "next level". Turning the crank handle and forming the wheel arch the same time was not possible - and I don't want to ask a friend every time using the machine. So I decided to go for an electric version of bead roller machines.

I bought on ebay a used speed adjustable "gearbox-motor" in a strange colour (just 130Euro) which fits perfect directly on the 22mm spindle of the bead roller machine, after removing the crank handle.

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Unfortunately it ran too fast for an "unexperienced wheel arch former" like me, even in the slowest position. So I had to transform the speed using a reduction system and had to position the motor somewhere else - not directly to the spindle. The gear motor now "hangs" free and is just held in position by brackets and strains the V-belt by its own weight of 35kg.

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At the end I mounted a Left-Off-Right swith and an electric foot pedal which has to be pressed to start the gear motor (Sorry for bad picture quality by broken iPhone camera). I now have an electric speed adjustable bead roller for in total around 300 Euro - nearly the same price as Karman quoted for the wheel arch repair panels. By the way, they never answered my question.

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Finally I grinded the tool with a hand held angle grinder.
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Everything is ready for producing wheel arches - I will take orders Smile Smile Smile
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