Author |
Message |
swhitcomb Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 5673 Location: Inwood WV
|
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Impressive work on the front firewall area. Just started mine the weekend. Not fun, and I even had help.
The before pic doesn't really show the full scope of how bad it was. Ended up fixing it similar to the way you did. Cut it up, fixed it, and put it back together. The back side was also rusted, just like yours. Nice and solid now. Next is the channel and quarter. Thank you for the helpful pic about how the channel is too short. Saved me from realizing it when it was too late. _________________ My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jeff_Birt wrote: |
I think it is highly unrealistic to expect any replacement sheet metal parts to slot in without requiring fitment. At the factory, when being built new, they have big fixtures to hold everything in alignment whist being welded. Even then there are tolerances to be considered because things are never perfect. |
Well, that’s a pretty generous viewpoint. I’d suggest there is a huge difference between quality panels manufactured and assembled to a good standard, and second rate parts roughly made and poorly put together, which is what I’m complaining about here.
I guess forewarned is forearmed – so if I can help show the issues I've faced with some of these parts, and how I got around them, it might help someone else do a better job on their project.
I don’t think for one minute that this is an problem exclusively for the VW community, but this is the only resto world I’m involved in. And like I said before, it feels like things are changing with more companies now producing higher quality options. But for the bulk of the available panels, especially for late Bugs / Supers, we only have one choice – Klokkercrap.
If we want the range of quality options to grow and these companies manufacturing them to succeed we need to choose the better quality part when available, as long as the price is fair. (Although, I’ll admit, sometimes when the price of the quality part is 6 times the price of the cheap part, it’s hard to see how the quality part is actually 6 times better when the cheap part can be made to work with some effort.)
Some of the worst parts are slowly being exposed – see this thread on heater channels
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503306
The poorest quality parts seem to be slowly disappearing – IIRC the heater channels I bought were branded Klokkercrap but were obviously the same as the ones labelled ‘Dansk’ in the above thread. Who-makes-what and which brands are real (part manufacturers) or just a different label is a fog of confusion in the pattern parts world!
So far I’ve come across the following quality options (where cheaper options are also available):
• Floorpans
• Front bulkhead (firewall)
• Heater channel
• Lower A-pillar repair (although I’ve not needed/used this part – yet)
Haven’t found quality alternatives for these parts yet:
• Rear crossmember (my current battleground)
• Rear body mount repair
Maybe collating this info would be worthy of a separate thread? _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jeff_Birt Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 315 Location: Rolla MO, United States
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
That was an interesting thread concerning heater channels. I have ordered 5-6 repair panels, all Klokkerholm brand in the last two weeks and they seem to be well formed. One thing I noticed from the stickers in the heater channel thread was that they said 'distributed by Klokkerholm' not 'made by'. This would indicate that they do not make all the panels they sell, maybe they make none at all? Maybe they get them from different suppliers so the quality varies? I'll have to see how all my panels fit up. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
swhitcomb Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 5673 Location: Inwood WV
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've bought quite a few older replacement panels over the years. Like 20-30 year old NOS panels. They ALL have fit better then the klockerholm panels. Rule of thumb I've found, if the new panel is grey or red, it fits better then the black klockerholm. _________________ My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Still making progress!
From this...
To this...
I kept as much as possible of the original crossmember as only the edge was rusted out. The pattern part didn't include the captive nuts or holes, and the heater tube hole wasn't quite the right size or position.
Floor repair in...
The corner of the rear quarter panel was rusted out. I didn't want to shell out for a whole panel and just use the corner, plus I know the corners on the pattern panels don't replicate the factory panel overlaps etc very well - so I had a go at making my own.
Cardboard template and start of steel panel piece
More details added, captive nut in recess and edge to connect to heater channel
Trial fit, looks good
Welded in and smoothed down
Keeping the line along the bottom of the doors and rear quarters above the running boards straight always seems to me to be one detail that separates mediocre from quality resto jobs. Looks good from here so far...
Now on to repairing the rusty area where the wing attaches
Lower patch welded in
Luckily, minimal rust behind the 'death foam' - same as the LH side. I've dodged a bullet here!
Upper patch welded in
Smoothed down and primered for now
Next job is finishing off the inner wheelarch panel and body mount area. I'm going to do same as LH side and just use the front part of the pattern panel to replace the rusty section where the body mount fits, and refit the original body mount bracket (see here)
Then 'just' the RH heater channel to do, and all the major body repairs are done! _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold
Last edited by Dodgy on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
endresta Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2007 Posts: 180 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice work
A lot of small details that take time I can tell _________________ SilverBIGL
Square
Type 1 are nice, Type 2 are cool, BUT Everyone knows, that Type 3............RULE!\\\\\\\"
Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Some more progress...
Same repair process as LH rear quarter
Step 1: Buy cheap awful repair panel, split into sections and note rust marks on steel already
Step 2: Keeping as much original steel as possible, repair front of body mount reinforcement panel using pattern part. Much reshaping of contours required...
Step 3: Weld new inner and repaired outer panel to car. Refit original body mount bracket (much stronger than pattern part) recreating original spot welds through to body
Step 4: Splash some paint on to protect from rust, looks solid as a rock again!
Here's before...
and after...
Looking good!
Eagle eyed viewers might notice I drilled some drain holes in the reinforcement panel - this area is a water trap, maybe if VW had put holes here originally this area wouldn't rot so badly?
On to next job - RH heater channel, then body rust repairs are complete! _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Literally no-one has been clamouring for an update on this build, but here's one anyway
Main job completed over the last few months has been the RH heater channel, won't bore everyone with a repeat story of the LH side, but I will have a rant about pattern panels and share some problems I came across
Heater channel I fitted on the LH side was branded 'JP Group / Denmark' and looked like this:
Because it had been a long time since I bought the LH part, it didn't hugely surprise me when I went to the same supplier and walked out with a different one to before, this time branded 'Klokkerholm' that looked like this:
So the pressing looked much better, especially the detail around the heater outlet in the front footwell This was unexpected bearing in mind previous rants about Klokkercrap panels, BUT...
The paint finish is not nearly as good, and doesn't extend inside the tube at all
The fit wasn't as good, I had to extend the front by about 15mm (way more than the JP Group panel). After fitting none of the threaded inserts lined up with the floorpan, which will now need the holes lengthened or moved
To lengthen the heater channel front end I flattened the factory flange and extended it by adding a new one:
Anyway, after all the battles I finally got it fitted. Refitted the door, which fits nicely with even gaps all round - result!
Anyway, we are currently planning some modifications to our house which means the garage will be demolished and rebuilt - finally I will have a garage with a flat floor, a leak free roof and a bit more headroom! To be able to get the car out when the time comes, I've refitted the body to the floorpan, reinstalled the seats and engine and hugely reduced the big pile of parts in the end of the garage. The car now starts & drives!
Doesn't look any different, for all the work that's gone into it!
You noticed the refitted door has been removed again. This is the next job I started. I've already decided I'm enjoying doors about as much as the front bulkhead
Driver's door is a bit crusty at the bottom, as they all are. Area around the lower hinge has rather disintegrated
I took out the lower part of the frame, lucky for me the door skin itself is almost rust free, this is a major result as I was not looking forward to trying to weld in a patch here - I'm not bad at welding but don't have the patience for this type of job, it was bound to distort the panel in some terrible way!
Have removed the reinforcement panel and welded in a new patch, adding the recesses for countersink bolts to refit the hinge
That's about where things are right now, I've rebuilt the rusty seal recess around the rest of the lower door frame and am close to welding the whole thing back together.
Progress! _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Chochobeef Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2013 Posts: 811 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
|
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
A lot of work for sure. I can't remember if you said you were a professional body guy or not, but that's about as good as it gets.
Hope you get to enjoy your piece of work when done. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TheRustySuper Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 2076 Location: New Albany, IN
|
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:41 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Any updates on this? One day in the future I shall be doing all these repairs on my '72 Super... _________________ My '72 Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Yes, there's been a bit more progress. Door is now welded back together and back on the car. Feels totally different with no drop when opened - what I thought was worn hinges was actually the lower hinge moving because it was no longer securely attached to the door frame, where it had rusted out.
I lucked out at a recent show and picked up a pristine LH door, which means I'm saved from repeating all this work on the other side.
I've now started on a dent repair on the front quarter. This is the last bit of body repair! But I've not started on the floorpan yet. Will post photos soon... _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hobbybob517 Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011 Posts: 1194 Location: Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Keep up the good work! Are you going to paint the car completely or just the
repaired areas? _________________ THE BUILD http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php
SBD wrote: |
3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up! |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
coxbzh Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2016 Posts: 22 Location: Brest meme
|
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:31 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
[quote="
[/quote]
excuse me but what is the metallic part in the middle of your door?
it's very interesting because i try to fix a before arme rest 1967 on a 1971's door
is it possible to have more details?
thanks |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
alikatcraig Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2007 Posts: 554 Location: Anaheim, CA
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
I am in awe of your skills and perseverance! I would have imported a (relatively) rust free one rather than go through those headaches. That was one steep learning curve, but the knowledge shared will help the whole VW community in their current/future projects - thank you. _________________ 1967 Ghia
1971 Deluxe Microbus
1974 Convertible Bug
1973 Standard Bug
1998 Mexican Bug |
|
Back to top |
|
|
beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2980 Location: RI
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
alikatcraig wrote: |
I am in awe of your skills and perseverance! I would have imported a (relatively) rust free one rather than go through those headaches. That was one steep learning curve, but the knowledge shared will help the whole VW community in their current/future projects - thank you. |
I second that statement! I'm wondering if you, Dodgy, would go down this road again, or as the previous poster suggested, import a rust free-ish one next time? Just curious since everyone kept suggesting I should have done that with mine, and after I went through what you're doing, I would in fact do that next time! Acquiring the skills also came with acquiring the knowledge of what rust brings.
Cheers _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
---------------------------------------
Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Well I've owned this car so long and have so many memories of driving it as my first car, swapping it for another would be cheating or seems unfaithful in some way. I certainly enjoy the challenge, mostly, when it doesn't just feel like a slog in the middle of some complex tedious repair. I'd do this again, and second time would be easier. And beetlenut, I'm relieved I haven't had to deal with the extensive rear quarter 'death foam ' repairs you had to, that might have sent me over the edge... _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2980 Location: RI
|
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Dodgy wrote: |
Well I've owned this car so long and have so many memories of driving it as my first car, swapping it for another would be cheating or seems unfaithful in some way. I certainly enjoy the challenge, mostly, when it doesn't just feel like a slog in the middle of some complex tedious repair. I'd do this again, and second time would be easier. And beetlenut, I'm relieved I haven't had to deal with the extensive rear quarter 'death foam ' repairs you had to, that might have sent me over the edge... |
Well, not knowing what I was getting into made it easier to just dive in. Once there, it was too late to turn back, but there were days I just had to walk away from it. I will say now that I'm bolting on new parts and seeing it come back together, it was all worth it! You're not that far away from that point either. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
---------------------------------------
Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Leicester, UK
|
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: Re: '75 UK 1303 Build Thread |
|
|
Here are a few more photos and a small update:
Door with the lower frame welded back on, I puddle welded along the bottom to recreate the factory spot welds:
Here is the lower hinge assembled back on the car with the door seal fitted. The areas around the welds will get a skim of filler when it comes off again for paint prep:
Photo showing the door when closed, I'm really happy with the panel gaps and alignment between the rear edge and rear quarter (it looks worse in the photo than in reality), especially at the lower rear corner where any misalignment stands out a mile . With the repair completed the door is super solid when opened & closed, with no drop:
The rust-free LH door I bought has now been fitted, which has saved me from doing all this work again - hurrah! (Especially as my LH door was in worse condition than the RH one I repaired)
So, on to the next job...
Here is a photo of this car back in 1992 , I had a bump driving back from work which stove in the RHF wing, headlamp etc:
I had the damaged repaired on [the other driver's] insurance, but they didn't do a great job. Back then I was too rushed / excited to get the car back to really inspect what was done, probably knew less what to look for. While a shiny new wing was fitted and painted, a lot of damage to the inner wing was not fixed properly. The recess for the windscreen washer bottle was very roughly beaten back into shape, and a crease in the front quarter just behind the wing was not repaired at all.
So I'm now fixing this damage, I've beaten out the washer bottle recess much more carefully, and a have straightened out most of the crease in the front quarter. I took a strip of steel maybe 1 1/2" x 12", drilled a series of holes along its length, tack welded it along the 'valley' of the crease and pulled the panel out using a slide hammer in the holes. The crease was less than 1/8" deep at most before, but this method brought it back to shape quite nicely. Then it just needed a skim of filler to finish it off:
It's been quite a while since I last did filler work (on my Squareback), I forgot how tedious it is... Haven't completely lost my mojo though, as the final finish came out great.
Can I do this whole car and use less than one tub of filler? Challenge accepted! _________________ '75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|