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'75 UK 1303 Build Thread
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS, this was my second car, my first being a marathon which i had to scrap. I did keep the wheels so the Marathon spirit will live in in my 75 as she will wear those wheels when she's done.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's nice to see another 1303 on marathons too! Smile
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubmatix wrote:
..the Marathon spirit will live in in my 75 as she will wear those wheels when she's done.
It's nice to see another 1303 on marathons too! Smile


Thanks. I ran the Marathons for a few years, still prefer them over GT wheels etc (although don't think you can get 5.5in versions) But now have a full Porsche 944 suspension setup sitting in the garage to be fitted as part of this rebuild. Marathons won't fit then! Ultimately the car is going German look - as far as my skills and budget allow, anyway Very Happy

Dubmatix wrote:

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics )


I *may* have some seat side panels in my parts stash, will check.

The pattern valence I fitted wasn't a bad fit overall, but thinner gauge steel and the bootlid secondary latch was pretty flimsy. Genuine part would be better of course, but you could make the pattern part fit OK as I did, transferring secondary latch and adding a reinforcement bracket at the centre.
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'75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodgy wrote:
Dubmatix wrote:
..the Marathon spirit will live in in my 75 as she will wear those wheels when she's done.
It's nice to see another 1303 on marathons too! Smile


Thanks. I ran the Marathons for a few years, still prefer them over GT wheels etc (although don't think you can get 5.5in versions) But now have a full Porsche 944 suspension setup sitting in the garage to be fitted as part of this rebuild. Marathons won't fit then! Ultimately the car is going German look - as far as my skills and budget allow, anyway Very Happy

Dubmatix wrote:

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics )


I *may* have some seat side panels in my parts stash, will check.

The pattern valence I fitted wasn't a bad fit overall, but thinner gauge steel and the bootlid secondary latch was pretty flimsy. Genuine part would be better of course, but you could make the pattern part fit OK as I did, transferring secondary latch and adding a reinforcement bracket at the centre.


No i don't think they did 5.5 Marathons more's the pity though there have been a few banded in the past. I seem to remember some huge ones on a buggy in one of the nagazines.

Ooh Seat plastics? Do let me know if you do please, mine are all broken.

I wasn't entirely sure what you reused on your front valence, did you chop off the the top bit from your original and then weld that in place of the same bit on the pattern one and then also add a bracket?

The one i have is an old unused pattern one from the 90s i picked up at an autojumble and i think is better quality (despite the surface rust) than the Klokk ones available these days. I am holding out for a NOS one though, just in case! Smile

John
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubmatix wrote:
I wasn't entirely sure what you reused on your front valence, did you chop off the the top bit from your original and then weld that in place of the same bit on the pattern one and then also add a bracket?

The one i have is an old unused pattern one from the 90s i picked up at an autojumble and i think is better quality (despite the surface rust) than the Klokk ones available these days. I am holding out for a NOS one though, just in case! Smile
John


These photos might help:

I used the full pattern valance but swapped over the centre 'hook' plate for the secondary latch - grey primer area in this photo. This was much heavier steel than the pattern part (which was also poorly cut and not welded square, if I remember correctly)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Because the pattern valance was thinner material, it flexed a lot at the centre where the bootlid catch is. Not ideal! Easiest option was to add a small reinforcement bracket to the boot floor.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Will PM you if I find some seat panels
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'75 1303 (current project) owned since 1989!
'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
356 Speedster kit, completed 2005 - now sold
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotcha! Yes i see what you mean, i was focussing on the primary lock, forgtting about the little latch on the front! Embarassed I have a spare (original thicker gauge) one if those bits if anyone needs one to do this mod (free to a good home).
I am toying with the idea of combining my original and pattern panels still. I think i need to see how much thinner my pattern one is.

Looking forward to watching your progress.

Now i must get out to the garage!

<Edit> I did and now the messing with those front reinforcement plates begins as does making the shell match the 75 pan and converting to steering rack.
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still making what seems to be rapid progress (it can't last...)

RH reinforcement bracket welded in place

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


RH inner wing plate welded in place - another piece which has been lying around just waiting for everything else to be ready

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next up - either tackle the horrific rusty mess of RH rear inner wing, or take a deep breath and start on RH heater channel and rear crossmember. Not sure which yet...
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'72 Squareback - full resto completed 2008 - now sold
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scourtaud
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incredible work you're doing and thanks for the detailed pictures, they help a lot for a newbie in welding tackling his own superbeetle (convertible 73).

Good luck for whatever your next job will be.
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, this project has gone quiet over the last few months as I just couldn't free up time to get into the garage, but started up again this week, more updates coming soon... Very Happy
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like mine a few weeks back! Good work, it's hard to get in the garage especially when the weather is good....or cold! [/img]
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's been a while since the last update. The last few months have been pretty busy and I've had very little free time to progress the build. Plus budget has been squeezed, so I've been waiting to purchase new panels to keep plugging those big rusty holes...

However, I've done a few small jobs:

First - refitted the LH door to check that everything stayed square during the heater channel replacement (guess I should have done this earlier...). Pretty happy with how it turned out! The photos don't show it very well, but the door is perfectly level with the rear quarter, and there's only a millimetre or so difference in the door gap top to bottom.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Fixed a small rust hole under RH rear window. Tried to do a 'filler-free' repair, didn't quite make it but pretty close. Will just need the thinnest smear to level out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Same for the radio aerial hole, nice to get rid of another potential source of leaks / rust!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's where things stand today:

I have a pile of new panels ready to fit!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


(Excitement tempered by knowledge of stress to come, fettling these panels to actually fit the way they are supposed to Evil or Very Mad )

Here are the big holes, soon to be filled with fresh steel

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Bring it on!
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Metamatic
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metamatic wrote:
Impressive work. Keep up the good working.

I am working on a 1303 convertible which was in utterly bad condition after sandblasting. I had to get a donator beetle and move over all vert specific parts to the donator making it a convertible.
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst you are working on the rear body mount area, it has made question the correct combo of metal and rubber washers on the rear body mount. In my bag of removed items i only seem to have one rubber washer but i am thinking it should have two, one between body and chassis mount and the other above the body mount.

The fiche drawing for the 1303 seems to have 3 combination options, one of which i presume is cabrio, (there's also that additional body mount used on the cabrios lower down) i have also seen a photo of the parts removed from another mount which tallies with mine.

Just out of interest, what was the combo on yours?

Cheers

John
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was one rubber spacer (6mm) above and one below the body mount bracket. A steel tube passes through both and they are held in plate with a M10 bolt and large washer. There shouldn't be any metal-to-metal contact between the body and the floorpan / damper bracket at this point.

The only place I've seen the correct shape rubber spacers offered is Demios
http://www.deimosaircooled.com/search/node/111%20799%20119
They offer spacers too
http://www.deimosaircooled.com/search/node/111%20799%20127

There were no spacers further forward above the torsion bar tube - as you say, this was for convertibles only.

Whether or not the number / location of spacers was changed for different model years or for body / closure adjustment at the factory, I don't know.
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Dubmatix
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant thanks, i'll have a look at Deimos. The ones i had on mine were circular except for two flats. I have seen that type somewhere. I happened to find the bag with the o/s mounts in and there were two that side so the n/s must have been messed with before!
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The Emergency VW Group Forum

1303 RestoBlog

1303/Latebug parts for sale and '03 shell soon to be available for cuts

Wanted: 1302/3 Front Valence (VW panel new or used in good order) and 3 point seat side plastics

1x NOS Decklid Thermostat and Vent Flaps left FOR SALE
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whobba
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that rust makes me feel sick! But your welding work is great!
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, things have to look [a lot] worse, before they start to look better, right?

Eeek!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Managed to carefully pick out the remains of the old crossmember end, so I can insert the new one and preserve the panel overlaps and position references. It's a longer, more fiddly job but worth it for a better, straighter, stronger end result. This side of the rear is a lot more rusty than the LH side, don't know why.

Well, here we go again with Klokkercrap rubbish...

What's this I can see between the two parts of my BRAND NEW rear crossmember panel, freshly collected from reputable VW parts supplier?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


To pick up old quote again Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Dodgy wrote:

Knowing Klokkercrap, the gap between these panels is already rusty from new


Split the two parts, once again no coating between the panels, and already starting to rust.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Maybe Klokkercrap do this because they think then we will have to re-rebuild these cars again in the near future, and buy more panels from them?

Ho hum, the panels need to come apart anyway, so I can re-make the outer panel something closer to the original factory part - see the terrible shape / position of the outer hole for heater channel access plug, and the upper cutout is wrongly positioned by 90 degrees.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


OK, I'm being OCD about this, but I have the time to fix it, and don't want to see these areas being wrong on the finished car.

Nice to be making progress again though!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be complaining to your reputable supplier that the panels you are getting are rusted and not formed correctly. Then I would return them and find another source and not buy from that other said reputable company. Also, what company? We may not want to support them even if they do have some good stuff. If enough people complain or don't buy from them, then perhaps we can get quality replacement parts.

Now that aside, holy crap you are doing amazing work to fix this rusted out bug. Is the time and money worth it? I wish you the best in finishing your project.
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Dodgy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's not the fault of the parts supplier.

While we all celebrate newer companies who have spotted a gap in the market, selling higher quality panels than Klokkercrap and similar have been producing for years, they only manufacture a very limited range of panels. And they seem to focus (understandably, I guess) on early models, rather than unfashionable Supers.

And while there's no other choice, we have to keep buying this crap, and somehow making it fit. (Depending on the time, skill and determination available, this can be either bodge-to-fit or re-engineer-to fit)

Apart from the problems shown in the photos above, the form on this part is mostly OK, although the quality of the pressing is poor, with loads of ripples. The hole for the heater pipe is wrong and will need reprofiling, it's missing the captive nuts to hold the heater tube in place and it's also missing the holes to bolt through to the floorpan perimeter.

I think I'll be trying to keep as much original metal as possible, and use as little replacement panel as possible, just like elsewhere on this project.

Since I started this project, and just after I finished rebuilding the front bulkhead including the internal reinforcement boxes, someone came on the market making (seemingly) good quality replacement bulkhead boxes for Supers.

Does that mean just after I finish wrestling this rear crossmember into place, someone will come up with a good quality panel here too?!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is highly unrealistic to expect any replacement sheet metal parts to slot in without requiring fitment. At the factory, when being built new, they have big fixtures to hold everything in alignment whist being welded. Even then there are tolerances to be considered because things are never perfect.

Now add in 40-50 years of a car driving around, rusting, twisting itself all about and eve if you had a 'perfect' factory part it will no longer just slot in. Consider also that slight differences that happen in production over a course of a vehicles lifetime. A part might have stayed 90% the same but may have had the design been slightly tweaked every few years. The folks making replacement parts have to do their best to make parts that fit the greatest number of years.

Even when everything is new at a factory things don't always align perfectly. I remember several years ago when I was still doing automated welding systems my boss and I stopped in to see a new system that a local boat manufacturer put in (we did not get the bid on that job). The welding cell was designed well and the fixturing was OK too. They had the aluminum panels cut and bent at another factory and shipped several hundred miles to this factory for welding. Of course these pre-formed panels were shipped in big stacks on a trailer and by the time they received them they were not the exact same shape they left in. I am certain the replacement panels we get for VWs have also left the factory in slightly different shape than what we get them in.
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