Why you should not vent the L/H valve cover on 1600 motors

[rs-vic]

The windage tubes are not long enough to cover the oil pressure relief port. On mag cases it covers only a fraction. On aluminum cases it does not cover the hole at all as the seating surface in the case is thicker. I just verified this yesterday. The tubes need to be much longer like for a Porsche 356.

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[Juanito84]

[Busstom]

If one was to use JayCee's external bypass system, then do you just leave the original one in place?

I guess it just sits there then, since the external system will do the job upstream?

[Juanito84]

[rs-vic]

So did Muffler Mike ever fix his problem? Do we know that the valve cover filling with oil is from the oil relief port or from oil being slung by the crank as MM stated?

[chrswlsn]

My logic, now after reading, would refer to the oil as the cooling blood for the engine. 3+4 fill up fast. I would think to drain it fast so it can be sent into 3+4 cover again would be better. or, would the cover fill up faster do to the larger tubes. Move oil to help get rid of heat. I may consider using larger diameter rod tubes on 3+4 to assist in the oil exchange. Or maybe on 3 or just 4? Any other ideas?

[mark tucker]

how about redirecting the oil relief exhaust port OMG what a conncept. or add the full tyme oiling to both heads so that releved oil is used for something. like sloting the lifter bores, adding the extra oil gally for slower oil flow with increased oil flow 2 gallys= more flow when needed, and also slower flowing oil at the same time.

[raul arrese]

I do external pressure relief and return it into the case and I also port and smooth out all my tube inlets... no valve cover breathers , only breath at top of case , and I run a double lip pulley seal .
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[[email protected]]

So I have been having problems with the same thing, 3-4 side filling with oil and coming out the vent. Only thing is its happening on the test stand I'm only turning 1800 RPMs and it runs maybe a miniute or two before it starts pumping out the vent. Its a fresh build, 50 plus PSI oil pressure and I'm sure the ring are still seating in but its the frist time I've had this happen. I could see if it was turning high RPMs but it is not. And it does have windage pushrod tubes so that does not help any. I checked another case with a windage tube just to see if that might be some of the problem and what I could see was it does block about half of the oil pressure relief hole but it is 1/4 to 3/8 away from it so it should be flowing free, no restriction, but shoting straight at the end of the tube. Now maybe it is doing some wierd bank shot and going right up the pushrod tube and that is helping to fill the valve cover, don't know. So any thoughts on what it is or maybe what it could be. It does have some cheap bolt together rocker shafts and I did not check clearance on them. Could that be what is causing the over oiling? I've second guessed, third and forth guessed myself on what "could or might be" Any input would be helpful Thanks.

[vwracerdave]

The problem is not from the rotation of the crank slinging oil up the push rod tubes into the 3-4 valve cover. Muffler Mike got it wrong. Bob Hoover got it right. The 3-4 valve cover fills with oil because the main oil passage is on the left case half. Look at how the oil galleys are drilled into the case. The 3-4 side rocker arm gets a lot more oil from the main oil galley then the 1-2 side does. Follow the Bob Hoover oil mods and you will get more oil to the 1-2 side valve cover.
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[rugblaster]

Here is what I've done in the past and I haven't had but one problem. I weld 5/8ths tubes in the top front of both valve covers. Buy a pan evacuation kit from MOROSO....it will have enough parts for two VW systems. Really all you do is weld the "whistle" that comes in the kit into the extractor collector. That piece holds a one way valve similar to a old style valve used in exhaust air pump systems. Then, it is simply a matter of running the hoses from the valve covers to the valve.

What this system does is pull a vacuum inside the case the same way airflow through a carb creates vacuum. Except on steroids... What does pulling a vacuum in the case do? It does two things, first, it creates a way for blowby (especially at high RPM) to be removed from the case. Second, the vacuum makes it difficult for the incredible amount of oil spray inside the case at high RPM to stay suspended. It will fall to the bottom of the sump. That negative pressure inside the case allows the oil to drain back into the sump through the pushrod tubes.

I think what is happening is excessive crankcase pressure is not allowing the oil to drain back into the case.

How well does it work? The first time I made a full throttle pass in my drag car, it pulled both valve cover gaskets into the heads. Subsequently, I had to use 3M Trim Cement (gorilla snot) to hold the valve cover gaskets on.

It is simple, cheap and effective.

My other tip is to use Total Seal 2nd piston rings.
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'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

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[MConstable]

[rugblaster]

I sold the car it was in the several years ago.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-i...allsy2.jpg

This might give you an idea what is going on. You would just plumb your two valve covers to the valve you see here. It is so simple, it's hard to understand. The MOROSO or Milodon kits will have detailed instructions.

Here is the car I used the system in, and for it's day, it was very quick.

_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I tryed to recreate the full valve cover syndrome with mine.
I could not make it do it.
But it is a big galley single relief cb super case.
So that leads me to believe in the oil relief at the push rod tubes being the valve cover filler.

[MConstable]

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the feed back. I hope that I don't have to tear it apart just to do the Bob Hover Mods. I've never ran into this before, of course not all had vents on the valve covers but most of them do. I'll continue to break it in when I can get it back on the test stand and see if it improves. I swaped oil pumps from a 30 to a 26 and will throw a set of fresh stock rockers shafts on it in an attempt to help control the oil, was not happy with the cheap bolt together shafts anyway. Then another 20 cycles on the run stand, if it has not started to act right by then I'll rip it apart and do the mods then. Thanks for the imput all. Hey I wonder if I sacrfice a Corvair it might make the VW gods happy and they will help. I guess number 109 is not a lucky number for me.

[mark tucker]

rings should be seated in the first 30 min of life or less. oe rocker shafts have nothing to do with this. although the pushrod tubes might. I wouldent go smaller on oil pump. what weight oil? might need to add a deflector so the oil dosent spray the tube.or some creative die grindering to the pressure outlet to redirect the oil. and be sure you have your windage pushrod tube in right not long end to the valve cover.. I will not use any of the oe style tubes. if you have a lot of blow by you have another issue all togeather and it needs to be fixed.

[rugblaster]

I maybe slightly off topic, I don't know, but I thought of one other thing I did that may have not been seen as something a performance motor should have in it. I was aware of secret dyno research done by Reher-Morrison and Shepard and another team from Texas that had a A Econo dragster and it had to do with windage and oil control inside high rpm engines.

The old rule was 10+ psi oil pressure per 1000 rpm. I was given to understand much less pressure was actually needed. Again, this theory would do two things; increase horsepower by reducing the parasitic drag caused by the large "racing" oil pumps, and two, reducing the amount of surplus oil being cast off the crank. The crank, rods, pistons and cam have to fight through this oil spray at 8000+ rpm.

I used a worn out stock oil pump in my drag car motor and never had a bearing problem of any sort.

This problem of filling up the valve cover with oil may be a result of to much oil (volume and pressure) being forced into the engine.

The old NHRA Econo dragster team referenced earlier were made to tear down their motor at every event they went to (people put up "protest" money) because all the experts just knew they were "cheating." Nothing outside the rules was ever found. They just kept kicking everyone's ass. To my knowledge, they never revealed their simple secret.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!