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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:45 am Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
Check your rods-- you may have a bent rod that torques on fine but when coupled at the other end with the wrist pin doesn't move straight, wobbling and chewing on the bearing. Either that or a bearing was mis-sized or mis-installed. The shop should have a VW jig to check (and even straighten) the rods. Any doubt, replace them. |
Thanks for the info. One of the crank rods and bearings were damaged so all of them will be getting replaced.
The rodon the right has some of the bearing melted/welded onto it. it's a little hard to tell but but that rod took a beating.
The remains of the crank bearing on the right. Did a comparison with another set
_________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2103
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:11 am Post subject: |
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good thing you didn't try to start that engine! |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:08 am Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Check your rods-- you may have a bent rod that torques on fine but when coupled at the other end with the wrist pin doesn't move straight, wobbling and chewing on the bearing. Either that or a bearing was mis-sized or mis-installed. The shop should have a VW jig to check (and even straighten) the rods. Any doubt, replace them. |
Thanks for the info. One of the crank rods and bearings were damaged so all of them will be getting replaced. |
IF you have any doubt on a part, I'd replace it. More than likely, that 1 rod was of a different weight than the others, and that can cause problems on it's own.
Get new or rebuilt parts from a GOOD supplier. This IS 1 area not to cheap out on. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I seem to remember a (VW?) manual that recommended doing a simple check for bent rods. It was a rod of just the right diameter that would be inserted through all four rods' wrist pin holes. Any misalignment would stand out clearly. Never done it myself, though. Does this work on an opposed engine? |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Slow 1200 wrote: |
good thing you didn't try to start that engine! |
I was about to wire it up to fire the engine as I wanted to know if it was functional. I also had rebuilt the fuel pump so I wanted to test that out as well. When I spun the pulley around, I tmoved and moved and moved then stopped. I knew then it wasn't going to happen. I was hoping for a quick fix but I think it was best to break it down and rebuild it. _________________ MonT3
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
MonT3 wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Check your rods-- you may have a bent rod that torques on fine but when coupled at the other end with the wrist pin doesn't move straight, wobbling and chewing on the bearing. Either that or a bearing was mis-sized or mis-installed. The shop should have a VW jig to check (and even straighten) the rods. Any doubt, replace them. |
Thanks for the info. One of the crank rods and bearings were damaged so all of them will be getting replaced. |
IF you have any doubt on a part, I'd replace it. More than likely, that 1 rod was of a different weight than the others, and that can cause problems on it's own.
Get new or rebuilt parts from a GOOD supplier. This IS 1 area not to cheap out on. |
I think you nailed it with the rod possibly being different than the remaining. It looks a little different than the other three. Mainly the shape of it. I thought I had posted pics of the contact face of the rod
I intend on getting new rods, cranks and bearings, etc. Don't plan on skimping on this part. _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:21 am Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
I seem to remember a (VW?) manual that recommended doing a simple check for bent rods. It was a rod of just the right diameter that would be inserted through all four rods' wrist pin holes. Any misalignment would stand out clearly. Never done it myself, though. Does this work on an opposed engine? |
I'm unsure as I'm pretty much a newb on this. This is all a learning experience that I've actually welcomed as I want to learn as much as possible. It's also been super fun as it takes my mind off work. _________________ MonT3
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
It was a rod of just the right diameter that would be inserted through all four rods' wrist pin holes |
AKA the piston pin, it should be long enough to have all 4 lined up side by side and check for straightness.
If you are buying a new crank I would suggest a counterweighted one from DPR, they are not expensive and made from real VW cranks. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:54 am Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
Bobnotch wrote: |
MonT3 wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Check your rods-- you may have a bent rod that torques on fine but when coupled at the other end with the wrist pin doesn't move straight, wobbling and chewing on the bearing. Either that or a bearing was mis-sized or mis-installed. The shop should have a VW jig to check (and even straighten) the rods. Any doubt, replace them. |
Thanks for the info. One of the crank rods and bearings were damaged so all of them will be getting replaced. |
IF you have any doubt on a part, I'd replace it. More than likely, that 1 rod was of a different weight than the others, and that can cause problems on it's own.
Get new or rebuilt parts from a GOOD supplier. This IS 1 area not to cheap out on. |
I think you nailed it with the rod possibly being different than the remaining. It looks a little different than the other three. Mainly the shape of it. I thought I had posted pics of the contact face of the rod
I intend on getting new rods, cranks and bearings, etc. Don't plan on skimping on this part. |
Oh yeah, I've smoked 1 like that before, along with a couple on water cooled cars (domestics). It's not really that uncommon to happen though, especially IF the engine has an oil leak, or was carelessly assembled. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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W1K1 wrote: |
Quote: |
It was a rod of just the right diameter that would be inserted through all four rods' wrist pin holes |
If you are buying a new crank I would suggest a counterweighted one from DPR, they are not expensive and made from real VW cranks. |
I second the getting a CounterWeighted one. You'll love how smooth the engine is with 1 in it. If I built another engine, I'd go with a CW crank, it's just that much better, and it's actually easier on the main bearings and case. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2103
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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myself I'd rather spend the money difference in having the whole thing dynamically balanced, of course the best is having a cw crankshaft and then everything balanced, but as it's usually the case that's the most expensive way |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Yes, i have seen some pretty big weight differences in parts. Our balance guy had a set of 90.5 pistons that one was waaay out. He took as much as he could off the piston and then had to lighten the pin to get it in balance with the rest.
Same with flywheels, he had one that wanted to jump off the machine as soon as he turned it on. That one looked like swiss cheese on one side.
My last 4 engines have all been balanced and there is a noticable difference. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Slow 1200 wrote: |
myself I'd rather spend the money difference in having the whole thing dynamically balanced, of course the best is having a cw crankshaft and then everything balanced, but as it's usually the case that's the most expensive way |
That's the best way to get long life out of an engine. A CW crank really smooths out the vibrations (I loved the one I installed in my 71 Notch). Having all the pieces balanced to each other helps a bit too, then you add in a dynamic balance, and it's even smoother. But like you said, it gets more expensive to do that. If you shop around, you can find a CW crank for just a little more than a stock crank (at least in the USA). I think I paid 50 bucks extra for that option on my engine kit. Well worth the money. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Got the heads back yesterday. Had the valves re-seated and after getting them back, I re-assembled them to some point. I was going to put the rocker arm assembly back on but after looking a closer look at the valve adjustment screws, they look worn and some look to be rounded and maybe they need to be replaced.
As for the CW crank, I've elected to pass on it as well as working the case over to accept it. This engine is a spare and my current isn't CW'd and I'm ok with it. Look forward to getting the case, crank and remaining pieces back to so I can put this engine back together. _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I've elected to pass on it as well as working the case over to accept it |
No case work needed with a CW stock crank, it's when you start stroking it you have to make room _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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W1K1 wrote: |
Quote: |
I've elected to pass on it as well as working the case over to accept it |
No case work needed with a CW stock crank, it's when you start stroking it you have to make room |
I was going to say the same thing. I know I didn't do anything to the case for mine, but Joe had to notch the inside of a couple of cylinder spigots.
Heads look good though. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Had this in different thread...
The case and parts came in with one issue. The box containing my case had to have been dropped or just plain thrown around. While pulling it from the box, I noticed one of the lower studs that bolts onto the tranny was gone and I mean sheered-off gone. I found the remaining stud in the box. the end that had snapped off was bent. I just got off work this AM and looked at it the garage and got pissed at it. So I pulled the extractor set I had bought a few months ago for a busted stud on my bike and decided it was time to deal with this. I began by drilling a small pilot hole to use as a guide for the extractor bit. The using the bit in reverse, I began drilling into the stud slowly, making sure I was keeping the drill level and straight as to avert drilling into the threaded hole and mess up my machined case. I didn't know how long this stud was so I decided that 1/4 inch deep would be my goal. Down side to my plan was that the extractor threads that dug into the newly drilled hole would have required a deeper push into the stud. So I frag'd my plan and took a 6mm hex wrench and tapped it into the whole to where it sat nice and tight and began to slowly ease the stud out. My plan worked and the stud came out with no issues. I'm glad to have had a good ending to this.
Few pics of what I had going on.
Remainder of my goodies for this build...
_________________ MonT3
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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