Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
spooky
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Bristol, UK
spooky is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beetleseb wrote:
Bears motorsport here in the UK are planning to make such a nosecone

I'm trying it in both my 50 bug and my 56 bus for them. It should sit the box in the stock location and bolt up like a factory conversion

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They are very busy and its taking a long time as its a spare time project. But it will happen one day!!

Seb


Anymore news on this one?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bally
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 1182
Location: Melbourne, Australia
bally is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trevor P wrote:
It's about a 2 minute job with a bandsaw or a 5 min job with a hacksaw. Trim the 1/4" off the front of the rubber mount (the narrow end of the taper) and clean it up with a quick sanding on a belt sander. Once installed you will never see it but the belt sander does a nice job of tidying it up.

14 months down the line and I am getting ready to install this kit - I even opened the box and had a look at it last night Smile It comes with a black metal horseshoe which I am assuming replaces the original one rather than supplements it. Is that correct?

I have a fair bit of prep work to do on the chassis and box before doing this install so don't expect anything posted this week but I hope to have it in by the end of the month!

There were no fitting instructions in the box, has anyone who has fitted one recorded this and can send me an idiots guide/how to? I am sure I can work it out, I just like to know what I am doing before diving in if I can.

Cheers,

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bally
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 1182
Location: Melbourne, Australia
bally is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have anything to add to this? Any tips or hints?

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PastDown
Samba Member


Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 125

PastDown is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you get on with the install? Where did you buy the kit from?

Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
Original Old Speed


Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 726
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
Mr. Okrasa is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm installing a full synchro "Rock Crusher" transmission in my numbers matching '50 beetle WITHOUT cutting / welding the frame horn.
This is a photo of the trans & boxed "16 wheels being shipped out to the painter / restorer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________


See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/

1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint Wink

Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE

VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bally
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 1182
Location: Melbourne, Australia
bally is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PastDown wrote:
How did you get on with the install? Where did you buy the kit from?

Thanks


Hi Rob, I bought the kit direct from Ken King at Concept1: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1624853

I have installed it to get the pan rolling but forgot to use any lubricant on the front mount so it could do with coming out again to get it all fitted correctly. The pan is currently away for esto and in several pieces. When it goes back together in late August we'll endeavour to use plenty of lube at that point.

I met Ken at the Ben Pon Show. He's a great guy and very happy for me to send him any pics I had of the install so he could help out with advice. I have yet to take him up on the offer though - I must do that.

Cheers,

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
Mr. Okrasa wrote:
If you want to install a tunnel type full synchro trans and still use a rubber factory mount, you have to modifly the nose cone from a type 2 bus. I have such a mount that allows you to do that WITHOUT any cutting nor welding of your mount nor chassis.

Pictures or it didn't happen!


I'm reviving this thread because I'm headed in this direction. I'm going to do tunnel case and single port 1500 in my 52 while I restore the original engine and a crasher. Not cutting the chassis or body is paramount...I want to be able to return to original.

I have the t2 nose cone already, what are the modifications to it as mentioned? Most of the links to products in this thread are expired or NLA. Concept has a mount setup with bus cone and adapter "to put tunnel case in bus" ...is that the setup?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
Original Old Speed


Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 726
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
Mr. Okrasa is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

koolerkrotch wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Mr. Okrasa wrote:
If you want to install a tunnel type full synchro trans and still use a rubber factory mount, you have to modifly the nose cone from a type 2 bus. I have such a mount that allows you to do that WITHOUT any cutting nor welding of your mount nor chassis.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

I'm reviving this thread because I'm headed in this direction. I'm going to do tunnel case and single port 1500 in my 52 while I restore the original engine and a crasher. Not cutting the chassis or body is paramount...I want to be able to return to original.


Here you go: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1822310

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________


See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/

1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint Wink

Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE

VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jason
Samba Member


Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3443
Location: Garage
jason is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

I dont like those type of mounts for non reduction boxes. Reductions push the nose cone down where the rubber is thick. Non reductions push it up where the rubber is thin.
I made a different type that uses a stock later mount. You can even change the mount when it goes bad without removing trans. It hangs a bit but not too bad, on a bus it's still above lowest point on chassis. I didn't want to cut so it's totally bolt in.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Well we're back to this subject. To clarify my situation I have a march of 52 chassis that i want to put a tunnel case tranny in. The chassis currently has a june of 1953 splitcase tranny in it with no chassis modifications.

I've read though this thread a few times, the subject matter seems to refer to bus conversions more than beetles. As stated I have a 1953 splitcase in my March 52 beetle chassis now. I believe this to be an early oval tranny dating around June 1953. It has a nose cone with the number 21.09.1 on it. Is this a beetle or bus nose cone? It does not appear to be the bus nose cone requiring modification with this product:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1318980

Did the early splitcase beetle trans go directly into the split chassis? or do I have an early bus nose cone on the 1953 split case?


The wagenswest product specifies for bus. Does it work to put tunnel case in split BEETLE? obviously requires a different type of nose cone, with lower bolt holes, than I have. It also appears to be bus specific as it has no support for upward thrust as was pointed out in an earlier comment.

I'm not afraid to spend a little to do a good job. I liked the look of this product:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1822310

but two attempts to contact/buy this product have remained un-answered. maybe its not available or maybe there is some communication issue.

In the absence of my preferred choice, (joe's product) what do I need? WHICH bus nose cone? and once I have it will the wagenwest product work in the bug?

Here's some pics of the current setup, june 1953 splitcase in the March 1952 chassis:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
splitjunkie
Samba Member


Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4083

splitjunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

If your current tranny is a synchro on 2nd through 4th gear split case then you have a '59 and earlier bus nose cone. The bus continued to use the doghnut front mount up until '59 so that provides a bolt on solution to install a syncro split case in a split window bug.

If you want to put a tunnel trans in a split bug use the nose cone in your second link (the one mr okrasa posted) as it will give you the best fit with no alignment problems. The wagonwest mount shifts your engine and tranny back a little bit (edit: apparantly this is not the case. They claim that their mount does not shift the transmission back) wheras the nose cone maintains the correct positioning.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld


Last edited by splitjunkie on Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69734
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

It looks like it might be a Bus nose cone to me.

Since it doesn't have a 211 part #, it's most likely an early Barndoor Bus nose cone, which pre-dated the use of the 9-digit parts scheme.

The crude-looking VW symbol on the nose cone also indicates that it is early.

Here's the nose cone from my '54 Single Cab, slightly different part # but same idea:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(Note: a piece is broken off the mount for the rubber here)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
If your current tranny is a synchro on 2nd through 4th gear split case then you have a '59 and earlier bus nose cone. The bus continued to use the doghnut front mount up until '59 so that provides a bolt on solution to knstall a syncro split case in a split window bug.

If you want to put a tunnel trans in a split bug use the nose cone in your second link (the one mr okrasa posted) as it will give you the best fit with no alignment problems. The wagonwest mount shifts your engine and tranny back a little bit wheras the nose cone maintains the correct positioning.


I'd like to use the mr okrasa mount...can't seem to buy it.

I guess the wagenwest product requires a 59-?? Bus nose cone. The one they show is clearly different than this early one. What about the upward thrust issue? The wagenwest poly section is u shaped, designed for reduction box downward force...right? Are you supposed to not use that section of the WW mount and use a donut instead?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
splitjunkie
Samba Member


Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4083

splitjunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

koolerkrotch wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
If your current tranny is a synchro on 2nd through 4th gear split case then you have a '59 and earlier bus nose cone. The bus continued to use the doghnut front mount up until '59 so that provides a bolt on solution to knstall a syncro split case in a split window bug.

If you want to put a tunnel trans in a split bug use the nose cone in your second link (the one mr okrasa posted) as it will give you the best fit with no alignment problems. The wagonwest mount shifts your engine and tranny back a little bit wheras the nose cone maintains the correct positioning.


I'd like to use the mr okrasa mount...can't seem to buy it.

I guess the wagenwest product requires a 59-?? Bus nose cone. The one they show is clearly different than this early one. What about the upward thrust issue? The wagenwest poly section is u shaped, designed for reduction box downward force...right? Are you supposed to not use that section of the WW mount and use a donut instead?


Yes you have to use a '59 and later nose cone with the wagonwest mount.

I am dubious about the design of their mount though. It might be great but the shape of the urethane and the small amount of support provided by the retaining ring concerns me. PM mr okrasa and ask about the mount. I am sure he will get right back to you.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bruce
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17273
Location: Left coast, Canada
Bruce is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

The WagensWest one is going to transmit a LOT of noise into the car.

Call up Rancho, they have a nose cone that bolts onto the gearbox with no mods and uses the stock rubber mount system.
_________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote:
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
The WagensWest one is going to transmit a LOT of noise into the car.

Call up Rancho, they have a nose cone that bolts onto the gearbox with no mods and uses the stock rubber mount system.


I believe that about the wagenswest mount, I've had my experiences with poly mounts. I'll call rancho, but i can find no such product in their web store.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
The WagensWest one is going to transmit a LOT of noise into the car.

Call up Rancho, they have a nose cone that bolts onto the gearbox with no mods and uses the stock rubber mount system.


Thanks Bruce, rancho indeed has them..we'll see what it looks like when it arrives.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Rancho delivered on the billet nose cone...appears to be made by FastFab and is a beautifully made unit. The design of this unit is to perform mounting and hockey stick functionality in about half the space the the VW engineers intended. as such the clearances inside for the hockey stick movement are very tight.

In some fitments (like mine) , the hockey stick just catches the corners of the big nut on the pinion shaft when in first and third gear. The noise when you're driving and hit 3rd gear sounds like the end of the world...but it isn't. a few mm of clearancing on the nut corners and/or hockey stick solves the issue. Considering how tight it is in there I don't think this is really a design flaw...just requires a few mins of custom fitting.

When using one of these be sure to check this BEFORE you install your transmission. (ask me how I know) if you put it in 3rd gear then push the hockey stick in as far as it will go while hand turning the input shaft you will feel the pulsing of the nut corners just barely hitting the stick. This apparently does not occur in every case.

Also give yourself extra time to install the tranny into the car. The mounting area is VERY tight and it took a bit of fiddling to get the mount, horse shoe, and bolts in there.

Worth all the effort though.. NO mods to the splitty chassis and tunnel case trans in the RIGHT location. Product is well worth the price.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bruce
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17273
Location: Left coast, Canada
Bruce is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

koolerkrotch wrote:
In some fitments (like mine) , the hockey stick just catches the corners of the big nut on the pinion shaft when in first and third gear.
This will only occur on the earliest gearboxes up to about 68. Later ones used a circlip to secure the pinion shaft so there's much more clearance.

koolerkrotch wrote:
Worth all the effort though.. NO mods to the splitty chassis and tunnel case trans in the RIGHT location. Product is well worth the price.
Rubber mounted for quiet operation too.
_________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote:
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
koolerkrotch
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 54
Location: CT and FL
koolerkrotch is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Fitting 60's gearbox to 51 split. Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
koolerkrotch wrote:
In some fitments (like mine) , the hockey stick just catches the corners of the big nut on the pinion shaft when in first and third gear.
This will only occur on the earliest gearboxes up to about 68. Later ones used a circlip to secure the pinion shaft so there's much more clearance.


Well, since the idea of the product is to not modify the split chassis, don't you have to use a swing axle version of the tunnel case? which is pretty much limited to 67 and earlier for availability, at least in the US. Can you put swing axles on an IRS type tunnel case?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.