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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: Adding Cooling Fins to Aftermarket Heads |
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I have been designing a way to add additional cooling fins to Aftermarket Competition Eliminator heads and am wondering if anyone else has come up with anything like this. This procedure would obviously make the aftermarket heads much more streetable
So far, the AutoCAD Design work is about 60% done.
I do however have a paper template I could trace to come up with mock-up fins.
Also, Would anyone be interested in this modification once I complete the design? I have access to a waterjet/laser cutting services if inquiries are high enough to do a production run of parts.
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My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| thats the way to go,if I had a set I would just cut,weld,taper&finish,but a nice fitting watter jetted set would be great(dont have to be perfect but closer the fit the better,and you might sell them to the dune guys,or even a cali co that builds other than drag motors that use those heads,or start your own koolheaded techknoligy service, kinda a no brainer, for the ones with brains.are you doing all the way around the head so the lower side gets cooled also?& add a deflector so the air that passes through the center of the head is redirected to go fore& aft through the fins not just blow on the ground.it would make the ultimate head mod for those on a street car/roadrace/dune,desert/even drag's.dropen seats isant kool,but keepen kool is.and yup that gives better and longer seat time. good work. |
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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| thats the way to go,if I had a set I would just cut,weld,taper&finish,but a nice fitting watter jetted set would be great(dont have to be perfect but closer the fit the better,and you might sell them to the dune guys,or even a cali co that builds other than drag motors that use those heads,or start your own koolheaded techknoligy service, kinda a no brainer, for the ones with brains.are you doing all the way around the head so the lower side gets cooled also?& add a deflector so the air that passes through the center of the head is redirected to go fore& aft through the fins not just blow on the ground.it would make the ultimate head mod for those on a street car/roadrace/dune,desert/even drag's.dropen seats isant kool,but keepen kool is.and yup that gives better and longer seat time. good work. |
With my engine in Mock-up now (90 x 94) I have come up with adding two complete fins which includes what you call the top and bottom (lets say, to tops and two bottoms then). It would look, if you can visualize, the reverse of somone milling an entire fin off when having to flycut too deep. More fins could be added but it would appear like the entire first cylinder fin would be inside the head bore so two seems to be the limit unless the barrels are cut down more.
I have also designed larger fins for the stubby exhaust port fin area.
With all the cooling problems on larger VW/Porsche engines I am surprised someone hasn't built huge cooling finned heads and enlarged sheetmetal, wider fanshrouds and fans etc. While I am at it I have been pondering the idea of a carbon fiber fan slightly wider than the 37mm fan. I used to own a small Carbon fiber company so that was a concept that would be interesting to see go-live. (not that it ever will for the price tag it would carry)
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:39 am Post subject: |
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stick a few between the push rods and the heads also,kinda like the mofoco's fined all the way up to the rocker box.and yess a good complement on the ex ports,and dont for get they need to be able to fit the shroud close so the air go's between the fins not around them on the serface of the shroud ,and they need a dump site for the heated aire to go out freely so the fins do something,a stagnate fin does almost nothing. and I would go as far up the intake I could also,cooler charge = more power. good luck what kind of shroud do you have?
Im going to be making some carbon fibre cylinder head tins for mine,already made some prelimenary glass ones,came out grr8,just need to make 2 plugs that will be interchangable for different intakes,(sf&big beef) so the covers will fit perfectly with thier intended intake's. |
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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Yeah there are a few areas i am considering adding the fins. I have considered lower fins with pushrod tube hole cut as well but not sure I need to go that far. I also have an idea for finned valve covers since I will be running rocker arm spray bars and can loose a little heat up there as well.
I am currently modifying an industrial shroud for 37mm fan.
It has no doghouse or fresh air.
Also, I am considering running manual cable operated flaps just for warm up and directional purposes but don't really care to run the thermostat and extra sheetmetal in a buggy.
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen pics of adding a fin on the cylinder side on type-4 heads.
If you use a larger fan, you may need two belts or larger pulleys to drive it. Seems to me the doghouse fan is pushing the limits of one belt as it is
I think it is better to use a smaller fan and turn it faster, at cruising speeds it will act the same and the belt will just slip more when you rev it high.
Or you could go the other way too, just keep in mind that you want cooling at cruise speeds more than anything else for street use |
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neil68
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Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Adding Cooling Fins to Aftermarket Heads |
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| yamaducci wrote: |
| I have been designing a way to add additional cooling fins to Aftermarket Competition Eliminator heads and am wondering if anyone else has come up with anything like this. This procedure would obviously make the aftermarket heads much more streetable |
Yes, JPM has done something similar already. I have a set of their MS230 heads and they run very cool on the street and also rip at the track. They have 10 cooling fins and they've also removed the fins on the exhaust ports, which helps cool the heads. These use CE/SF manifolds and flow 230 cfm out of the box with 0.550" lift and 240 cfm with 0.630" lift. They can also be ported further. It's not uncommon for the Scandinavian racers to drive several hundred kilometres in their race Beetle's, throw on some slicks to race, then drive back home again. http://www.jpmotorsport.se/e_default.htm
Here's a couple of photos:
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Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
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yamaducci
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Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Neil thanks for the link and pics. That is basically what I am trying to accomplish except mine are Add-On's and those look cast in.
Also they have 9 fins which is 3 more than CE and S/F heads.
I know I can install 2 fins with a spacers between. Three could be done on special applications as well. If that equates to an actual 30% improvement in cooling that would be worth the effors/cost.
Seems to me though you would want some cooling on the exhaust port runners though.
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| nice heads nice chambers,I wouls still add more to the bottom of the head,and make sure air is forced through them. |
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VWDruid
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Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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check this blog out
http://waynesexperiments.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html
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It's not the straight cut gears It's the T.A.R.D.I.S. engine.
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neil68
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: JPM heads |
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| yamaducci wrote: |
Neil thanks for the link and pics. That is basically what I am trying to accomplish except mine are Add-On's and those look cast in.
Also they have 9 fins which is 3 more than CE and S/F heads.
I know I can install 2 fins with a spacers between. Three could be done on special applications as well. If that equates to an actual 30% improvement in cooling that would be worth the effors/cost.
Seems to me though you would want some cooling on the exhaust port runners though. |
FYI: This latest version of JPM heads now has 10 fins...the 2005 version had nine. The JPM head is cast aluminum, but then the fins are "machined" or sliced into the usual fin area...more expensive of course to do this work...
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Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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ALB
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Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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"...and they've also removed the fins on the exhaust ports, which helps cool the heads."
Neil- Could you explain? Sounds counterintuitive to me.
PS- Won't be seeing you GCVW show weekend; have a wedding to go to.
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Serious electronic heat sinks... Been there, done that.. Work like a champ, hold them in place with some 10/32 screws.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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neil68
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Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: exhaust fins |
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| ALB wrote: |
"...and they've also removed the fins on the exhaust ports, which helps cool the heads."
Neil- Could you explain? Sounds counterintuitive to me.
PS- Won't be seeing you GCVW show weekend; have a wedding to go to. |
Hi Al,
The exhaust fins were deleted, because JPM says the purpose should be to get rid of the heat via the exhaust gases, not transfer heat to the head.
His head is also set up for future 4-bolt headers, if need be (for hi output drag or track racing). I don't have a picture of the top and side fins, but they are very deep and go around the sides of the head nicely. I'm running 10.6:1 CR with 91 octane in my 2332 cc, going to 11.2:1 CR on JPM's recommendation.
Sorry that you can't make GCVW weekend this year; have fun at the wedding!!
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Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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miniman82
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Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Serious electronic heat sinks... Been there, done that.. Work like a champ, hold them in place with some 10/32 screws. |
Huh? 
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Buellistic
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Posts: 357
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Serious electronic heat sinks... Been there, done that.. Work like a champ, hold them in place with some 10/32 screws. |
That sounds like a neat idea actually. I had a videocard that had such a nice heat sink that it could cool passively. It didn't even need a fan.
Maybe you could elaborate on how and where to attach heat sinks? |
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CLKWRK
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Location: Toronto
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| miniman82 wrote: |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Serious electronic heat sinks... Been there, done that.. Work like a champ, hold them in place with some 10/32 screws. |
Huh? |
What, something you haven't thought of? Used them on billet heads exclusively. Source them from junk electronic sites... Then become creative.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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BugMan114
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Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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are you being serious? i've always thought to do that, but figured it would be one of those things that seems like it would work but doesn't (like routing the fan shroud oulets to the carb for a ghetto turbo).
how would this work as far as tins go, and the existing fins? mill the old fins off? any pics?
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Rohrheim
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Joined: December 16, 2010
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought but wouldn't it be easier, less expensive and more efficient cooling to mount 2 remote, 4 inch boxer fans and route some flexible duct and plenums?
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