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How to install a 58 and a 59 Ghia horn ring
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the same response from Chris at HoG for the Bushing Kit so all of my hopes are on you Loren! And depending on the price, I might take 2 kits!
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Loren
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horn hardware kits are almost finished and should be available the first or second week of April. The brass contact rings and the 59 plastic insulator ring are still in the works and should be available in the next two months or so.

So far it looks like the 58 horn hardware kit will run $20 plus shipping (the kit will include: 3 springs, 3 screws, 3 washers, 3 plastic spacers, 3 spring cups), the 59 kit will be $15 plus shipping (this kit is a little cheaper because you don't need the spring cups).

I will do a write up on the repro kit vs OG parts when the kit is finished because there are some minor differences, primarily in the hardware.
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Shaggir
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, looking forward to having a working horn at last Laughing
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pardon me for my lack of knowledge, but why would a 59 not need the plastic cups? Are the springs larger to compensate for the holes in the steering wheel? I've been trying to understand the complete circuitry for these horns and steering wheels from time to time and still makes no sense. Guess I need to actually see how they work.
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Loren
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn system is very basic. A hot lead goes directly to the horns while the ground wire is broken at the horn ring and depressing the horn ring completes the circuit and allows the horns to function.

The 58 Ghia steering wheel horn set up is slightly different than the 59 in that it has the ground wire attached to the horn ring while te 59 wheel has the ground attached to the brass contact ring. The spring cups are only used on the 58 steering wheel to keep the springs from grounding the horn ring while the 59 wheel has the plastic insulator to keep the brass contact ring from grounding on the hub of the steering wheel. The 59 set up doesn't use the spring cups because the springs need to contact the metal hub of the steering wheel to continue the ground to the horn ring. This is why you need to clean out any paint or grime from the inside of the spring holes in the hub of the 59 steering wheel to make the horn work.
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ghiarossa
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: John Copello kit Reply with quote

Loren wrote:
If you want I can track down screws and springs (finding the closest available ones at the local fastener store) and I can send John Copello a set of OG caps and insulators so he can turn out another run. I am still waiting to hear back from the laser cutter on the brass rings and the plastic 59 insulator rings. Let me know how soon you need the parts and I will see what I can do to speed things up.


Loren, I rummaged in my parts stash and amazingly John's rebuild kit was super easy to find. Posted picture to blog -

http://omiaghia.blogspot.com/2012/03/john-copello-horn-rebuild-kit.html
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1958 VW Karmann Ghia coupe
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Loren
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, the spacers in this kit are not correct. When I sent John the parts to reproduce about 8 years ago I didn't notice that the ridge around the top of the spacer was broken off (along with the 6 or so other spacers I had). At the time I thought this was how they were supposed to be, but a year or so ago I was able to find one with the ridge around the top and realized my mistake. The new kit will have the correct spacers.
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boinkffd
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great info in this thread. Dose anyone reproduce the 4 plastic inserts that secure the ornamental horn cover to the chrome ring?
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Shaggir
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any update on the kit?
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Loren
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally have some 58-59 horn ring hardware kits available. They are slightly different than the original parts, but the parts will get your horn working again. I only made 100 kits, 50 of each style.

Here is what the 58 kit includes

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Here is what the 59 kit includes

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Here are the differences between my parts and the originals:

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The reproduction screw is on top and the original screw is on the bottom. The screws are 3.5 mm which are hard to find and this is the only style I could locate. The reproduction screw is zinc plated instead of chrome plated and it has a phillips head instead of slotted. It is also 2 mm longer that the original and does not have the smooth shoulder. The added length does not effect the working ability of the horn ring and if this is a concern it could be filed down 2 mm to match the original.

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The reproduction spring is on the top and as you can see it is slightly smaller that the original spring and is zinc plated instead of black oxide. The spring can be extended slightly to match the length of the original spring.

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I could only find a few 3.5 mm (on the right) washers and was forced to use 4 mm washers to complete the rest of the kits. The new 4 mm washer is slightly larger than the original, but it works just fine. I don't have an original washer to compare to, but the original washer would be like the 3.5mm wahser on the right.

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These are the insulator spacers that fit on the horn ring. I only had one partial spacer to work from, but the reproduction came out very nice and is just as nice as the original.

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These are the spring cups for the 58 Ghia kit. They are very nice and came out just like the originals.
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Shaggir
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work Loren, I'll have 2 sets thankz. Please PM me the details
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I'm lost. I've been sitting here, trying to figure out how all this goes together. I'm pretty sure I know where all the parts go now, but I still can't figure out how the horn blows when the hot wire coming out of the steering column attaches to a brass ring that doesn't touch anything. Am I missing something? Do the springs touch the brass ring? If so, how? How does the circuit complete when you press the horn ring down, but it doesn't touch the brass ring? Confused
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Aussie59Cab
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the horn ring is compressed it contacts the isolated brass ring and the circuit is completed through the 3 x springs.
I think!
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Loren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the 59 Ghia set up you have the hot wire from the horns attached to the screw terminal on the isolated brass contact ring. The horn ring is grounded to the hub of the steering wheel through the 3 springs as mentioned above. You need to be sure that the depressions in the steering wheel (where the springs sit) are clean and free of any paint, oil, etc. It is imperative these depressions are clean and down to bare metal to insure a good ground. When you depress the horn ring it makes contact with the brass ring and actuates the horns.
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I imagine that when you depress the horn ring, it makes contact with the standoff on the brass ring where the wire attaches? Maybe it'll all make more sense when I have it all together.. Think
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Loren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a raised lip on the back of the horn ring that hits the brass ring when it is depressed, completing the circuit.
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Loren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now have the brass contact ring for the 59 Ghia horn ring available. They turned out really nice! The tolerances are perfect and it fits exactly like an original ring.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is the original ring on the left and the reproduction on the right.

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Here is a close up of the screw terminals with the original ring on the left and repro on the right. The repro set screw does not have a rounded top but the screws are interchangeable. I have only made a few set screws so I might correct this when I make more.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The original ring is on the left and the repro is on the right. This is a view of the back of the ring and shows the major difference between the two rings. The machinest decided to attach the screw terminal with a brass screw instead of a crush rivet. I actually like this set-up better than the crush rivet and the screw is counter sunk so the back is flush. I was a little worried that the terminal would spin when the set screw was run down to secure the ground lead, but they are really solid.

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I don't know why this depression is on original rings, but I decided to add it anyway. It's on every 58 and 59 Ghia brass ring I have so I know it is supposed to be there. The original ring is on the left.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is the original ring on an original plastic insulating ring.

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Here is the reproduction on an original plastic insulating ring.
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boinkffd
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loren, thank you for the horn kit as it arrived afew weeks ago. Keep us posted when you have the plastic incerts available to mount the plastic button to the ring.

Thanks G
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copellos
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

!#$%, I do good work......those do look nice
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Loren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, special thanks go to John Copello for all of his hard work on these parts. I don't know of another machinest that would take on such a small job and make the parts affordable enough so that Ghia owners could actually afford them. Thaks Johnny!!!!
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