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My 1973 Refresh Project
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JayC
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: My 1973 Refresh Project Reply with quote

Hello All,

I thought I would start a topic around my "refresh". I am not calling this a restore as the Thing is not a basket case at this point, but just a 38 year old VW that needs some cleaning up and refreshing.

The goal for this project is to get the Thing back to as close to factory "new" condition as reasonably possible. Just fair warning, there won't be any serious off road modifications (see Jeep in background), slamming, narrowing, custom mods, etc. I just enjoy bringing it back to like new so I can enjoy it for many years to come. This is not going to be a show car, but my own personal joy.

As a bit of background, I owned a 1973 Thing back when I was in high school, many many years ago. I loved it then and after I sold it, I always wanted another one. Long story short after about 25 years, I decided it was time. Long searches of theSamba as well as other sites finally yielded a 73 close to where I live and not completely rotted away. Not quite a barn find, but it had been sitting in a very nice person's garage for 10 years. It had belonged to her father and he had bought it new. I picked it up and drove it all summer and enjoyed the heck out of it.

Starting in December, I began taking it apart and fixing the minor cosmetic issues with the body in preparation for the paint. I also started collecting all the new rubber, mechanical and misc. parts I would need to put it back together.

Currently, I have pretty much disassembled everything off the body including pulling out the wiring harness. That was certainly an interesting exercise. I have a paint/body shop giving me an estimate to do the repaint. I want to keep it the original orange or as close as possible.

I will post updates as I move along. Primarily to keep me motivated to get it done (target date in mind) and I am sure I am going to have questions. I have spent a lot of time reading all of the posts on this board over the past few months to hopefully uncover any gotchas and make sure I don't re-ask questions.

Ok, on to the pictures:
The thing as it was when I was driving it all summer.
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The ugly dent in the front:
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It is a bit tough to tell from the picture, but the nose is pushed in a bit. Nothing crumpled (phew!), but will require some gentle persuasion.

Now, for my first question:
What is the trick to getting side marker/signal lights off the fenders? I have the lenses off and the wires disconnected from the headlight buckets, but don't see how they unbolt?

Second question:
What type of screw holds the hood release wire in the front of the trunk connected to the D ring in the glove box? I can see it connected there, but don't see the screw that holds it.

Thank you all for your help, patience, and kind words.

Jay
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norcalmike
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice 73!
the screws for the turn signals are inside the fender well.
the hood release is riveted on i believe
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vws-microcars4jim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1973 Refresh Project Reply with quote

JayC wrote:
there won't be any serious off road modifications (see Jeep in background), slamming, narrowing, custom mods, etc.


Applause

Nice Thing Jay.
Is that original paint? If so, I'd consider repairing areas and leaving most of it original, might help the value long-term. Either way it looks like a nice Thing. Enjoy it!
Jim
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crofty
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an ok thing but you should part it out. I know someone who could use that drivers rear fender.



j/k Nice Car!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
That's an ok thing but you should part it out. I know someone who could use that drivers rear fender.



j/k Nice Car!



That's what I like about this place, friends helping friends. Laughing
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JayC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies! I'll keep in mind the part out option when my wife gets on me Very Happy

The paint is original, but fading badly, chipped / scuffed / scratched / etc. so it really needs to be refreshed. I don't plan on stripping it all off as it is good enough that it should form a solid base for the next coat. 20 years from now (fingers crossed) I can strip it all off!

I'll look for the bolts for the marker lights again. I am guessing they might be under the under coating in the fender? I am in the process of stripping that out now.

Yes, I see the latch is riveted on, but it is the bolt that connects the wire to the latch I am looking for? Not exactly a simple place to crane my neck around to!

Ok, here is another question:
As mentioned, I pulled the wiring harness. However, I did not pull it through the body for the front (seems to run between the fender and the body? How hard is to push back through if I took it all out?

jay
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vws-microcars4jim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayC wrote:
As mentioned, I pulled the wiring harness. However, I did not pull it through the body for the front (seems to run between the fender and the body? How hard is to push back through if I took it all out?

jay


If you are going to pull it through, I would recommend connecting a thin rope/strong string to the wires, so you can pull it back...I found a short in the wiring in that area, and it was tight going through there.

IMO leave it alone if everything is working properly.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayC wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I'll keep in mind the part out option when my wife gets on me Very Happy

Ok, here is another question:
As mentioned, I pulled the wiring harness. However, I did not pull it through the body for the front (seems to run between the fender and the body? How hard is to push back through if I took it all out?

jay


Before pulling the old harness out, tie a cable or old cord to the end. Then pull it out and leave the cord. That will give you something to pull it back through when you are done doing what you need to do.
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crofty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayC wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I'll keep in mind the part out option when my wife gets on me Very Happy

The paint is original, but fading badly, chipped / scuffed / scratched / etc. so it really needs to be refreshed. I don't plan on stripping it all off as it is good enough that it should form a solid base for the next coat. 20 years from now (fingers crossed) I can strip it all off!

I'll look for the bolts for the marker lights again. I am guessing they might be under the under coating in the fender? I am in the process of stripping that out now.

Yes, I see the latch is riveted on, but it is the bolt that connects the wire to the latch I am looking for? Not exactly a simple place to crane my neck around to!

Ok, here is another question:
As mentioned, I pulled the wiring harness. However, I did not pull it through the body for the front (seems to run between the fender and the body? How hard is to push back through if I took it all out?

jay


Try some 3m "Finesse it" before you repaint. You might be real suprised at how nice you can buff it out.
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cable wire is attached with a screw that if you look at a hole about 3/8 in. on the drivers side of the front latch you will see a phillips head bolt and the cable will more than likely be bent also to keep it from sliding out
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the delay and appreciate the responses on the wiring issue. I don't really want to pull it all the way out, but don't want it to look too bad with the new paint. I will try buffing it out, but I think that there are enough small nicks / scratches / dents / etc. that new pain is in the works.

Here a couple more pictures of the tear down:
Drivers side front fender. Does anyone know what the two extra holes are for (bottom left and right)? I don't remember seeing them on passenger side.
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After removing the gas tank, I finally got to the heater fuel pump. Um, it wasn't actually connected to the fuel line going to heater. Could explain why it didn't work. I will need to test it out and see if it still functions. It was just lying on the top of the pan. I see a bracket down there, but I don’t see how it attaches. I am sure it must bolt to something! Luckily the heater switches all still seem to work. Lots of grease and gas spilled in there. The good news is it looks like the steering stabilizer was replaced recently (looks almost new).
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Wiring mess under the dash. So, did they come from the factory like this? I only found one wire that I couldn't account for. It was very strange. It went from under the dash, through the firewall, and was spliced into the passenger side headlight wire harness. It wasn't connected to anything. I thought at first it was for a radio, but have no idea why the PO would run it all the way to the front of the car. Oh well, one less wire to mess with.
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This weekend the engine comes out!

Just to add one last thing... I was lucky enough to be in Hawaii the past couple of weeks. Took this of a nice Thing in downtown Kona. Belong to anyone around here? (Bad picture, just had my cell with me).
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jay
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayC wrote:

Quote:
Wiring mess under the dash. So, did they come from the factory like this? I only found one wire that I couldn't account for. It was very strange. It went from under the dash, through the firewall, and was spliced into the passenger side headlight wire harness. It wasn't connected to anything. I thought at first it was for a radio, but have no idea why the PO would run it all the way to the front of the car.


Yes it seems they came that way - unusual for Germans to have such clutter!

With respect to the mystery wire. Perhaps it was for a set of foglights? The wire could have been the power source to a relay with the foglights only able to operate when the headlights are on. Is there any indication on the dash of a switch that could have been to the relay?
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JayC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Update - with pictures Reply with quote

Ok, finally able to get an update here.

It has been a lot of work over the last few weeks, but I am at the point where it is ready to go for body and paint. A few things I have learned:

1. #3 Phillips head bit and an impact wrench is essential for getting screws out. I had been using a #2, but chewed the head off one of the screws on the windshield frame. #3 took it right out.
2. Anyone that is selling you a "rust free" car doesn't really know what they are talking about. I keep finding rust all over the place that you would never see if you didn't disassemble everything (windhsielf frame, fender mounts, etc.). I'm glad I am getting a chance to fix it now.
3. Old VWs are still the easiest cars around to work on (in my own opinion).

Taking the fenders off was a challenge. As you can see in the below pictures, the edges where the fenders mount to the body is pretty rough all the way around. I broke off one bolt in each corner removing them. A pain to take care of. This has led to holes through the body as well as rotten metal in the fenders. This should be pretty straight forward to fix.

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I ended up removing all the undercoating in each wheel well to make sure there weren’t any other problems. I will just paint these back up and leave the undercoating off. It looks like the rest of the coating is in pretty solid shape, but I don't want any more water getting sealed in the wheel wells (fenders are expensive!).
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Engine pulled out. The seals in the engine compartment were toast and are being replaced. The engine is in good shape, but has 60K miles on it and leaks like a puppy so it is time for a rebuild. Again, nothing crazy, just want a solid runner.

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Until the body shop frees up, I will be rebuilding the front end and seeing what, if anything should be done on the rear; probably just brakes and new rubber where appropriate.

So a couple of observations:
1. In each rear wheel wells, just behind where the jack point is, there is a small round cover/access point. I didn't see it until the undercoating was removed. Anyone have any ideas what it is?

2. In the driver’s side rear wheel well, it looked like someone had put their initials into the undercoating before it tried (like righting your name in concrete). I know about the writing in the passenger headlight bucket (mine has it and I will preserve it) but hadn't seen anything about the undercoating. Has anyone else seen it?

3. Looking for a source for the rubber bits that are used to mount the body (under the fuel tank in the trunk and in front of the shocks in the rear. Has anyone every seen this for sale anywhere?

Finally, a thank you to everyone who has posted over the years in this forum. It has been a great source of information and the search function has revealed a ton of information (like how to get the ash tray mount out)!

jay
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JayC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Update! Reply with quote

Hello All,

I realize it has been awhile since I have posted any updates on this. Primarily for a couple of reasons: 1. I'm bad at making updates, and 2. Work is slow.

On a good week, I get 3-4 hours of time to piddle around with my hobby. And, as I am sure everyone knows, every job seems to take a lot longer than expected.

That being said, I have made some good progress. The primary focus has been on the front end. This included stripping out all the front axle components and rebuilding. The beam, brakes, steering knuckles, master cylinder, and steering box were all removed front end. Everything was sand blasted to bare metal to remove rust and corrosion. All nuts and bolts were tapped to clean and align threads. Bolts showing obvious wear were replaced with a like grade. All seals were replaced and new brake drums were installed (the old ones couldn’t be turned). All grease was cleaned out and replaced and everything was put back together. Of course looking back, I again realize I haven't taken enough pictures.

The Before Pictures:
Front Brakes Before Tear Down
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Front Brakes - Before Clean-up Brakes
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Front Brakes - Before clean-up - backing plate
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Steering Knuckles and Brake Parts - before cleanup
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After the clean-up:
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Everything was cleaned of grease and dust and then got a coat of POR-15 and then top coated with Satin Black to give it a semi-glossy finish. This seems to be the closest to what it looked like new. You can still see a bit of pitting in the metal, but there shouldn't be any rust under there (fingers crossed).

New ball joints were installed on both sides, along with all new master brake cylinder, brake lines, slave cylinders, and pads.

I'm currently rebuilding the steering box. When I opened it up, it was pretty much bone dry. It is working much better now and should be painted and back in shortly.

As long as I had it off the ground, I figured I would get the wheels done as well. Again, removed all the old rubber and sand blasted them back to bare metal. This time, each wheel got a fresh coat of primer and then metalic silver paint to get close to the original color. I used Rust-o-leum for this. It looks OK, not great. I am contemplating taking them in and having them blasted back down and power coated. I think they will look better and last longer.

Front Wheels - Sandblasted
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Front wheels repainted
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Next up is tires. I have been doing my research, but still not sure what I am going to put on. I liked the 14" BFGs for their looks, but don't think they will be practical for driving around town. This isn't an off-roader, so I will probably go with something planer. My biggest decision is to have the white walls or not Very Happy.

My most recent work has been tearing down the rear suspension and going through the same process. At this point, the driver’s side is completely apart and I will do the passenger side over the Christmas holiday. Hopefully if the weather cooperates, I will have it all back together in a few weeks.

One final thought. I know a lot of people say it around here, but I want to add again, my thanks to all of the great members of TheSamba. Not only here in the Thing forum, but other places as well. The helpfulness and the great detail in postings have been a tremendous help as I go through this. I typically research TheSamba first before tackling a project. I have gotten lots of great tips and tricks that aren’t covered in the Muir book or the Orange book. I hope, someday, that I will be able to pay it forward to others that are looking for information.

A couple of questions before I leave off...
1. If you remove the torsion bars from the rear axle, how do you initially set the spring plates when yo u put them back on? Just match original angle? Any other tips or tricks?

2. I took the bolts out that secure the body just in front of the rear shock mounts. There are two pieces of rubber that act as body mounts there. Does anyone know a good source or different material to replace these with? I checked theThingShop but didn't see anything like it.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas / Happy Chanukah / Happy New Year to all!

Jay
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

West Coast Metric has the body pads as well as The Thing Shop. The rear pads are about 1/4 thick. If the pads you get are thicker you can cut them with a hack saw. Nice job on the car. I love to see detail.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks I'll try with both places. I hadn't seen the part number on the thing shot. I think it is part number 111 799 119. I appreciate the guidance.
(EDITED) Found my problem... I was thinking it was a different part, but it is the same as the rubber pads in the front that mount to the axle!

I'll work on getting more detailed. After reading all the posts on the rear bearings, I was nervous tackling them, but they came out pretty easy. Lots of corrosion, but one of the joys of finding a Colorado car Smile

jay
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front pads are about twice as thick as the rear ones.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Updates! Reply with quote

Howdy,

I got to take Friday off (because I get to work all weekend), so I had some time to get a few things done.

I started working on the rear suspension. This was the first time I had ever tackled the rear suspension on a VW and the spring plates/torsion bars were an interesting challenge. Much different from the normal axel / springs I have worked with in the past. Thanks to everyone at the Samba, and tons of other online reading, it was pretty straight forward.

First up, remove drums, brake components, bearing cover, outer bearings, and axels. Note to self, not in that order. I learned that once I had everything off and went to loosen the bolts for CV joints, the whole axel just spin. Fixed it by being able to use a large pare of vise grips on the axel and bracing against the trailing arms to crack the bolts loose. Probably something I should have seen before starting Smile

Passenger Side Brake:
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Drivers Side Brake
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Took a look at the brake drums, both front and back. They are probably the original drums that came on the vehicle. I took them in to check wear, but they were pretty much beyond hope. So, new drums for the front and rear. The rear ones are German and the fronts are Italian. Interesting that my local VW parts shop wasn't able to locate German for the front but had the German rear on the shelf.

Front Drum with POR-15
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Front Drum Top Coated
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Rear Drum with POR-15
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Top coated it looks just like the front 
Next, I removed the trailing arms. This turned out to be a bit difficult getting the big bolt out. Lots of pressure, PB, and a bit of heat and finally came out. I leveraged a tip I saw in another post to drill two small holes between the trailing arm support and the spring plate to be able to get the alignment back.

All the bolts for one side. Note, I use a wire wheel on all the bolts and then run a thread die across them to clean up the threads. Any that are beyond repair or look damaged require a trip down a very cool store in town that carries every type of metric bolt you can imagine. I baggy up bad bolts with where they came from and make a trip there a couple of times a month.
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The actual arms:
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Finally, taking off the spring plates. I have to say, after reading everything here and other sources, this scared the heck out of me. I was afraid these things were going to shoot off, brake my arm, kill the dog and put a hole in the side of the garage. It turned out not to be nearly that scary. Again, leveraging an idea I saw on another build, I used a loop of chain, a couple of bolts and turn buckle to shift the plate off the stop and gently lower it down. You can see I had the jack under the end for safety.
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I used a protractor to get the angle of the arms after they were down. 20.5 degrees on both sides which seems to be about right. When I reassemble, I think I will shift them to get a bit more "lift" in the rear. It was sagging a bit after 40 years.

Finally, everything off to the blasters to get cleaned up and then a coat of POR-15 and finally a top coat in semi-gloss black. This seems to create a nice finish.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The one interesting thing I found on the rear. On the driver’s side, after I removed the spring plate, I found that the rubber bushing was pretty much shot.
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After blasting the cover plate, this is what I found:
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Interesting damage. It almost looks like there was water dripping there continuously. Not sure I have any other ideas. Oh well, a new part ordered.

Next weekend, hopefully I will get to put all of it back together again.

A couple of final things:

My new toy I got for Christmas. Not sure how thrilled I am at the moment. I thought it would be great for cleaning small parts, nuts, bolts, etc. I ran some through it yesterday for about 4 hours. They definitely came out better, but not as “clean” as I was hoping. Maybe just high expectations. Still had to use the wire wheel (on a bench grinder). Maybe the media I am using? It does do a good job of cleaning places I can’t reach with the wire wheels
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Final thoughts:
Yea, it is definitely a labor of love and taking a lot longer than I thought. Mostly this is due to a hectic work schedule. I know I can’t complain about that due to what others are going through. My wife and friends think i am crazy, but even in the cold, it is fun working out there and being able to see something I did when I am finished. Very different from my real job. Again, thank you to everyone on the Samba for insights and tips that have made this go smoothly.

Last update:
I have been ordering parts from various places, mostly The Thing Shop, but also CIP1, German Motor Works, and K-Man. I won't name names, but got an interesting package in the mail yesterday. I had ordered a new c-clip for the speedometer cable (it ran away after it popped off). I got a box yesterday that was easily big enough to hold a rear brake drum and backing plate. Buried inside, under tons of bubble wrap, was a little plastic bag with on tiny c-clip in it. Cracked me up! I am not sure what I paid in shipping, but it is place where I probably won't do business again. Can anyone say “padding”?

jay
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JayC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a nice day here and took a day off from work to to catch up ona few iitems.

Finished installing bushings in the rear trailing arms, continued wire wheeling the frame parts on the rear and got all the painting done. It is pretty much ready to go back together.

I put the front brake pads in and and put the new races in the front drums. After contemplating it for awhile, I decided I wanted to replace the lug bolts with studs and lug nuts. So, I did some reading on the Samba and decided that it was M14x1.5 that was the way to go. Off to the local FLAPS to see what could be seen.

Ok, I should have known I was in trouble when I said "I need some wheel studs" and the guy behind the counter started asking what year vehicle, etc. After explaining what I wanted to do, he finally pulled out a huge book (had to have been at least 8" thinck) and went to the studs section. Turns out there about 200 different M14x1.5 studs. After looking at a tape measure for awhile and thinking, this is what I selected:
M14x1.5
Knurl Dia: 14.94
Length 35.5 MM
Shoulder 10.5

Does anyone have any thoughts on if these will work OK in the VW drums, front and back?

Thanks,
Jay
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JayC
Samba Member


Joined: July 07, 2010
Posts: 292
Location: Colorado
JayC is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Frustration! Reply with quote

Not sure if anyone is reading this or not, but just sharing my frustration a bit....

This weekend, it was time to finish and button up the front end. The plan was to finish installing the brakes, brake lines, new drums with new bearings. I figured it was probably going to be 2-3 hours of work. Silly me...

I started on the passenger side front. I installed the new pads, retainers, and springs and ran the new lines to the new master cylinder. Then I drilled out the drums and pressed the new studs in. Added the new races, packed the bearings and put in the new seal. When I slid the drum over the pads, it immediately got stuck half way. I went back through everything and found the issue (so I thought). When i used POR15 on the backing plates, a blob had dried on the raised shoulder at the base of the spindle. Ok, got rid of the blob. The drum slid into place, but was a very tight fit. After I put the outside bearing in and the retainer and tightened the nut on the spindle, the drum wouldn't move at all. Backed everything off, check everything again. With the outside bearing out, the drum was tight and would just barely move. With the outside bearing in, no go, nothing moved. It was bound up somewhere.

I thought maybe I had a bad drum or bad bearings or the race was seated correctly or something. This drove me nuts for about two hours as I checked and double checked everything.

Finally, I got the second new drum out and tried it. This time, I didn't drill it or put the studs in. I thought maybe the studs were causing the issue. Nope, same issue.

Finally, after 4 hours, I tossed my hands up in frustration. I figured I would try it again on the driver’s side and see if there was any difference. Bingo! Everything went together with no issue, drum slid right on and tightened down nicely. The drum spun pretty free after it was all done, even with the studs. I even put the new drum on without the studs and no issues. So, the drums, bearings and races must be OK.

So now, I am still scratching my head over what is wrong on the passenger side. I don't see anything obviously wrong. Is it possible the backing plate is jacked up? Could the spindle be slightly bent? Is there another blob of POR15 I am missing someplace? Ugh...

Oh well, if this is the biggest problem I face, life is still good....

jay
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