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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20266
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| I just use the brake clean to flush out all the brake & clutch dust. |
Same here.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| I just use the brake clean to flush out all the brake & clutch dust. |
Same here. |
Im sure most do... but for the frugal crowd.. Water is cheaper..  and works well at trapping the dust.
I use a hoist/lift (coolant) drain.. place it under brakes, clutch.. and use low pressure water spary, sometimes a brush.. .. wash away the dust/dirt and recycle it with the coolant..
We also use Isopropyl alcohol as our brake cleaner.. .. dries up nicely..
.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12846
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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Cheap ass! 
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Cheap ass! |
Sometimes it's the simple things .. right at your grasp..
Years ago when I worked for a local service station.. I helped cut their cost down on brake cleaner by 80% just by switching to brake washing with water and recycling it along with the coolant.. The water bill wasn't even effected..
After the H2O bath.. a quick spritz of brake cleaner and it's dry, clean and ready to service..
Now if the brake parts are saturated with oil... gotta go with the proper. chemicals..
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12846
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
tootype2crazy,
cdennisg found it again a few posts back.
VOLKSWAGNUT, I had one asshole working for me that went through a case each of carb cleaner & brake cleaner a week, & he got pissed when I started billing him for it. He must have been snorting it, giving himself a rubdown with it, douching with it & taking the rest home. Just like with everything else, once they have to pay for it, it is used more sparingly.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20266
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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Yesterday, I wrote...
Samba won't let me edit my original post to fix the broken link. If a mod sees this, please fix it if possible.
I like that sprayer. I have one similar that I keep my acetone/ATF mix in for rusty bolts.
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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For what it's worth, the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is, in fact, washing grade (fast dry) lacquer thinner. The thin nozzle works great for getting thinner into those glove box-sized touch-up paint bottles, when the paint gets too thick to be usable.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20266
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
| For what it's worth, the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is, in fact, washing grade (fast dry) lacquer thinner. The thin nozzle works great for getting thinner into those glove box-sized touch-up paint bottles, when the paint gets too thick to be usable. |
Doesn't smell like lacquer thinner, at all. I used some about an hour ago. Smells like brake cleaner.
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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I fixed the link
| cdennisg wrote: |
Yesterday, I wrote...
Samba won't let me edit my original post to fix the broken link. If a mod sees this, please fix it if possible.
I like that sprayer. I have one similar that I keep my acetone/ATF mix in for rusty bolts. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| janerick3 wrote: |
| For what it's worth, the non-chlorinated brake cleaner is, in fact, washing grade (fast dry) lacquer thinner. The thin nozzle works great for getting thinner into those glove box-sized touch-up paint bottles, when the paint gets too thick to be usable. |
Doesn't smell like lacquer thinner, at all. I used some about an hour ago. Smells like brake cleaner. |
Yep, it's carbon tetrachloride, the cholrinated stuff doesn't burn and was even used in fire extiguishers many years ago, until that little phosgene gas issue came up. Laquer thinner burns like a mofo, be careful with that stuff.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21510
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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Carbon tetraachloride....are you sure?.....not only does it eat oxygen....which is why it WAS used in aircraft fire extinguishers especially for magnesium years ago. While not a carcinogen. ....moderate to chronic use causes liver and kindney damage.
The vast majority of new non-chlorinated brake cleaners are simply.....as others have mentioned.....mainly just a solvent spray similar to carb cleaner.
Classic brake cleaner sprays are designed to be water miscible. ....and are designed to dissolve and foam,with water. They need to be rinsed with water or they leave a residue that defeats lubricants. Ray |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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Well it's been a few years since I actually read the label on a can of the stuff, maybe the formula has changed? smells the same as the stuff in those old extinguishers.
Definitely not laquer thinner if it's non flammable.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21510
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Well it's been a few years since I actually read the label on a can of the stuff, maybe the formula has changed? smells the same as the stuff in those old extinguishers.
Definitely not laquer thinner if it's non flammable. |
True.....post a brand and I,will pull it up and post it. Ray |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20266
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
Well it's been a few years since I actually read the label on a can of the stuff, maybe the formula has changed? smells the same as the stuff in those old extinguishers.
Definitely not laquer thinner if it's non flammable. |
True.....post a brand and I,will pull it up and post it. Ray |
This is what I usually use.
| cdennisg wrote: |
In my experience, it is plainly labeled right on the front of the can whether it is chlorinated or non-chlorinated.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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OK, found a few different cans of the "non flammable" stuff.
*Older Gunk (Solder seal), on the caution label it says "contains perchloroethylene and carbon dioxide".
*current Gunk brand, "perchloroethelene and methylene chloride".
*recent Lloyds, "tetrachloroethylene and carbon dioxide".
*Kleen flo, "perchloroethylene, methyl alchol, d-limonine and carbon dioxide".
Not sure where I saw the Carbon tet now, might have been a 5 gallon pail of bulk stuff I used to have.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21510
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
OK, found a few different cans of the "non flammable" stuff.
*Older Gunk (Solder seal), on the caution label it says "contains perchloroethylene and carbon dioxide".
*current Gunk brand, "perchloroethelene and methylene chloride".
*recent Lloyds, "tetrachloroethylene and carbon dioxide".
*Kleen flo, "perchloroethylene, methyl alchol, d-limonine and carbon dioxide".
Not sure where I saw the Carbon tet now, might have been a 5 gallon pail of bulk stuff I used to have. |
Sorry...meant to get right back to this. Tetrachloroethylene. ....is another name for Perchloroethylene....or PERC.
Its is a class 2A carcinogen.....basically meaning hughly suspected. It is also the same ingredient used off and on....as legality allows. ...for dry cleaning. Fast drying, non flammable.....oxygen depleter. A chlorinated solvent......nasty. it has the same short term effects as carbon tet. In an enclosed space it can suffocate you.
The last one in your list....with d-limonene.....while non toxic....technically.....is a heavy degreasr....citrus-sol or citrus based and MUST be rinsed with water or it leaves a residue.
And.....methylene chloride is flat out nasty stuff. It is also known as dichloromethane. Its a chlorinated solvent. One of the less toxic chlorinated solvents but known to actually cause chemically derived hepatitus......by damaging the liver.
And worse......methylene chloride. ....is metabolized in the body by creating carbon monoxide. Acute exposure can lead ro carbon monoxide poisoning.
The 3m brake cleaner:
Acetone
Naptha
Propane
Xylene
Ethylbenzene......which is low toxicity....but carcinogenic.
I dont use brake cleaner for anything. Any basic solvent and water will do what it does. Ray |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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Stoddard solvent and one of these
deodorized mineral spirits work just as well. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20266
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
I dont use brake cleaner for anything. Any basic solvent and water will do what it does. Ray |
Can you elaborate for me please? Of all the classes I struggled through in high school, I never took chemistry. I am all about not using nasty cleaning products if a better option is available.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21510
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Brake cleaner warning: A worthy read |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
I dont use brake cleaner for anything. Any basic solvent and water will do what it does. Ray |
Can you elaborate for me please? Of all the classes I struggled through in high school, I never took chemistry. I am all about not using nasty cleaning products if a better option is available. |
The brake cleaners of say......20 years ago all had a couple of things in common.
1. The main solvent(s) that did the dissolving of the mixture of baked on oils and brake dust.....were pretty bad for you. They were typically Perchloroethylene, methylene chloride.....fast evaporators. ...mixed with usually something like glycol ethers and basic solvents like xylene.
Basically a cross between a basic paint thinner and something very hot like laquer thinner. The hot solvents were required to dissolve any greases.
The greasea oils and brake dust essentially form a "concrete" like mixture. Typically solvents alone cannot dissolve everything in this mix because its somewhat waterbased or more solvent resistant because of the brake dust aggregate.
2. Enter the glycol ethers......which dissolve different types of things thatn the hot, fast evaporating solvents do......and dissolve with water....and allow water to be transmitted into the mix.
Old school brake cleaners like gunk.....were designed....and it said it right on the lable...to be "self emulsifying".....meaning they goam up a little due a combination of propellants, evaporating solvents, surfactants (detergents) and the glycol ether.
So......you spray on the brake cleaner.....scrub it around.....add a little water....it encapsulates the dust and leaches into the aggregate......and helps dissolve what solvents alone cannot......and then you rinse it with a water hose. It foams up....and washes away clean (self emulsifying). It was on your back to then dry everything off with towels and compressed air so it did not flash rust.
For environmental reasons.....very few modern brake cleaners are made this way anymore primarily because the average home user or mechanic had the habit of simply just flushing all of this down the sewer with the garden hose.......and it contained metals, lead, asbestos etc.
Pretty much they are now just highly volatile solvents to melt the emulsion of brake dust snd grease.......sometimes with another solvent ingredient to slow down the drying process of the hot solvents long enough that you can work it around. Then they dry fairly clean. No water.
For what you are trying to do......its pretty simple to take a decent solvent like xylene or many paint thinners......that do not have the nastier more toxic solvents.......and brush them on or psfay them on, scrub them......and then add a surfactant (degreaser/detergent)......work it in and then rinse it off. Ray |
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