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Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine?
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VWinVT
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Robw_z wrote:
This appears to be mounted at 15 degrees? If somebody could come up with a good manifold for a 50 degree mount the ABA would be much more feasible with factory diesel mounts.

-Rob


Stock ABA fits quite easily under the deck lid using stock diesel carrier bars. Make spacers to drop the trans and bars 1 3/4 up front and 2 1/2 at the rear and it fits perfectly. You will still have minimum 7 1/4 Inches of ground clearance and NO hump in the deck lid.

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_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA

Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground.
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icolquhoun
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Robw_z wrote:
This appears to be mounted at 15 degrees? If somebody could come up with a good manifold for a 50 degree mount the ABA would be much more feasible with factory diesel mounts.

-Rob


Rob,
look at the lower part of page 11 for a pic of my manifold for 50 deg mounting Wink
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icolquhoun
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
regis101 wrote:
Here in Cali-Land that modified intake wouldn't pass the Visual. Otherwise we'd be all over all kinds of groovy


I doubt this is a solution of any kind, but the modded intake I've been thinking
of [edit for a 15º swap]
is a Passat intake with an angled section cut out of the middle to position
runners closer together.

Looking at an image of that intake again, this likely wouldn't work; it would
put the outer runners too far in? Might not clear the alternator?
If not, I'd section it, then weld it to a cut ABA lower plenum.

Neil.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Neil,
the aba is the only vw that has that intake runner spacing, so nothing else really will work as a graft without massive work. It is SOOO much easier to use 6061 and fab from scratch using either a pre-made flange, or the first 3" or so of the lower aba manifold. the 16v runner are either 40mm or 50mm ID, and iitc the aba is like 32mm, so that makes it difficult as well.
On the intake I pictured, the runner are 16" long with fully trumpeted velocity stacks tuned for torque. It required a very minimal amount of raw materials, as ytou can build the entire manifold with 2 U bends and a bit of sheetmetal for the plenum.
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Neil,

I dont have a support running off the manifold, the mass of the head flange and the tight machining tolerances make this a stout positive contact once the hardware is installed.

Nubworks on Facebook built this for me, he has flanges and trumpets all machined ready for your build request Wink
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

I often wonder if there'd be any good reason to put an ABA head on my 2LR block. It's 17mm or about 11/16 shorter than an ABA. But at 50 degrees that translates to less than 3/8 shorter. It would keep things tucked in, not sure what the resulting compression ratio would be though.

-Rob
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

^^

Interesting idea Robw_z I'm bad with geometry, math, but in my minds' eye
could see that combo putting the top of the cross flow manifold a little lower.

dkoesyncro: thanks for that
icolquhoun: good tip on materials and construction.
Yes. I was thinking of keeping part of the
ABA lower plenum. But ya, those runners did look like they had significantly
different dimensions.
Heres the link to Aluminum welding with a MIG I referred to earlier:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/aluminium-setup.htm

NOT saying it's the right way but for those with a MIG, and time, it might do?

Neil.
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

VWinVT wrote:
Robw_z wrote:
dkoesyncro wrote:
I have/had my exhaust similar to yours. I'm going to lay it out different since it was firmly mounted, I had a lot of noise and vibration.

Here's my new manifold though. Way to much volume before
[pic]


This appears to be mounted at 15 degrees? If somebody could come up with a good manifold for a 50 degree mount the ABA would be much more feasible with factory diesel mounts.

-Rob


Stock ABA fits quite easily under the deck lid using stock diesel carrier bars. Make spacers to drop the trans and bars 1 3/4 up front and 2 1/2 at the rear and it fits perfectly. You will still have minimum 7 1/4 Inches of ground clearance and NO hump in the deck lid.

[pic]
[pic]
[pic]


Rob,

Did you use stock 1982 Carrier bars & engine mounts along with your aircooled trans?

Thanks!
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VWinVT
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Stephan Schmidt wrote:
Rob,

Did you use stock 1982 Carrier bars & engine mounts along with your aircooled trans?

Thanks!


Yes, I did use stock 82 bars and aluminum brackets with the 83 rubber engine mounts. I cut some 2 1/2 inch square tube steel down to 1 3/4 inches to use as spacers for the forward carrier bar frame connections as well as for the aircooled transmission. For the rear engine carrier bar mounts I attached 2 1/2 inch shackles from trailer leafspring assembly, got them at tractor supply. I bolted the shackles.to the brackets and then mounted the bar to the shackles. They are very sturdy and don't allow any more movement than the bars alone would allow. Best part is the motor fits under the deck lid!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA

Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground.
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Awesome, Thanks! I have a 1982 Vanagon Diesel Tintop and I'll be doing this ABA swap over the winter!
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

icolquhoun wrote:
Rob,
look at the lower part of page 11 for a pic of my manifold for 50 deg mounting Wink


Now start selling them Smile

But really, I feel like the main reason the ABA conversion never took off like others is the perception that it's hard to fit under the decklid.

-Rob
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VWinVT
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

Stephan Schmidt wrote:
Awesome, Thanks! I have a 1982 Vanagon Diesel Tintop and I'll be doing this ABA swap over the winter!


Sweet! U will love it! One other thing, I have a 7/8 inch lift on the rear of the van using the white cutting boards on top of each of my rear springs. It fixed the vanagon rear end say and helped fit the ABA!
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA

Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground.
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? Reply with quote

VWinVT wrote:
Stephan Schmidt wrote:
Awesome, Thanks! I have a 1982 Vanagon Diesel Tintop and I'll be doing this ABA swap over the winter!


Sweet! U will love it! One other thing, I have a 7/8 inch lift on the rear of the van using the white cutting boards on top of each of my rear springs. It fixed the vanagon rear end say and helped fit the ABA!


Good tip! thanks!
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

ABA 50degree swap with WBX transmission; Clutch question:

I've recently purchased a 1983.5 wbx Westy and am going to use my 82 diesel tintop as a parts bus as its fairly rusty and the real value for me is that I'm LOVING the features in the Westfalia!

The 1.9L WBX has a new clutch and flywheel, the newer 228mm size.

The stock diesel clutch is a 215mm. I'd like to keep the 228mm size and I'll use the G60/1Z/AHU 228mm flywheel on my ABA swap. Will the Diesel bell housing need to be slightly opened up for the larger flywheel? Will the stock diesel starter work? The diesel starter in my van is brand new as well and I'd love to keep using that is possible.

I'm going to use all of the early 82 diesel 50 degree bits and will modify the engine carrier bars to work with the WBX trans position, swap the input shaft on the trans, and raise the decklid just slightly to clear the intake manifold.

Thanks for your help!
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

I can't help you with the 228mm clutch/flywheel fitting into the diesel bellhousing, but my gut tells me that an ABA isn't going to produce enough torque to overwhelm the stock diesel 215mm clutch.

Have you seen this thread? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648353&highlight=

It's an excellent walk-through of an ABA install @ 50 in an early van, and it fits below the decklid. I think you should consider slightly modifying the front trans mount to fit the entire assembly in there at the same position as the diesels, which requires a whole lot less jiggery-pokery in order to fit correctly.

Edit: Actually, you can see his pics in the posts above this one.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

The ABA won't slip the stock diesel Vanagon 215mm clutch unless you turbocharge it. I wouldn't do the 228mm. You'll have all the clearance issues, need to either machine/balance the flywheel or be unable to pull the pan without pulling the trans/engine, and the cost of the 228mm flywheel/PP is going to be similar to the cost of the diesel vanagon components.
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

ok, thanks guys! 215mm it is. If it won't over power, i'll just get the flywheel resurfaced and then put a new clutch in there!

For the front mount would this adapter bracket from gowesty work for me? I'm not a fabricator, so the exhaust system will need to be made for me, but i can definitely shorten the shifter linkage. I'm quite handy, just no welder Sad

hopefully this trans mount adaptor would work!

http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23718
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

there's no need to shorten the shifter and add that bracket to install 82 bars into an 83.5+ van.

you need to have 2 plate tabs with 2 holes in them and bolt solidly between the motor mounts and the carrier bar mounts.
2 flat straps of 5/16~3/8 plate
about 1.5in wide by about 4in long (going from memory here)
with 2 holes that meet up with (aluminum mount on the motor) to (rubber mount on the bar)
easy way to get the hole distance right is to start with 1 hole in each plate tab.
then bolt it with as big abolt as you can to the aluminum bracket and swing it over the rubber mount to locate/mark the next hole.
you locate and mount the motor/trans by the front trans mount and while hanging on a lift/picker you lower to locate the position to the carrier bars.
once these are bolted solidly to both the motor won't know that the mount is in effect cantilevered by about ~2in. really.
cost is scrap (for me anyways) but you can buy a heavy strap steel at the local farm&fleet or hardware store, cut it with a hacksaw and drill it.

there's a picture here someplace I'll try to find it and link it in..
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

here we go post from uncommon VW.. shows what you are going for..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7378913#7378913

uncommonvw wrote:

Here is a picture of mine. There is a 1/2" thick spacer and the rubber mount is offset from the cast aluminum mount by about 2"
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Stephan Schmidt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
there's no need to shorten the shifter and add that bracket to install 82 bars into an 83.5+ van.

you need to have 2 plate tabs with 2 holes in them and bolt solidly between the motor mounts and the carrier bar mounts.
2 flat straps of 5/16~3/8 plate
about 1.5in wide by about 4in long (going from memory here)
with 2 holes that meet up with (aluminum mount on the motor) to (rubber mount on the bar)
easy way to get the hole distance right is to start with 1 hole in each plate tab.
then bolt it with as big abolt as you can to the aluminum bracket and swing it over the rubber mount to locate/mark the next hole.
you locate and mount the motor/trans by the front trans mount and while hanging on a lift/picker you lower to locate the position to the carrier bars.
once these are bolted solidly to both the motor won't know that the mount is in effect cantilevered by about ~2in. really.
cost is scrap (for me anyways) but you can buy a heavy strap steel at the local farm&fleet or hardware store, cut it with a hacksaw and drill it.

there's a picture here someplace I'll try to find it and link it in..


Hmm, interesting idea! I've PM'd uncommonvw to see what the clearance is like at the back of the Van. I'm going to be using the stock WBX or Diesel exhaust system without a cat converter so I want to make sure its not going to interfere with the exhaust routing.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? Reply with quote

that shouldn't have any effect with the stock exhaust.
the stock DV exhaust is affixed to the motor, it hangs off the back of the motor mount & oil pan.

make sure you have a heat shield between the muffler & the V/serpentine belt. the belts don't appreciate the radiated (infrared) heat and don't last as long.. the good news is the belt is mucho easier to change w/o a heat shield.
the Diesel muffler heat shield blocks alot of access. I use a section of the waffle heat shield from a modern car underbelly, cut with metal shears/snips and affix to the muffler with large diam band clamps.
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