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Casting Timmy Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012 Posts: 1221 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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gears wrote: |
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Once again, while GL-4 is more than adequate for stock applications, I'd recommend a high quality GL-5 for any Vanagon with significantly upgraded horsepower, or any Bug transaxle pushed to its limits (road-racing or off-road). |
Personally I think this is the best summary of this 50 pages. I would personally add that why not use 75-90 or 80-90 GL5 for stock applications (better protection) and a 75-140 or 80-140 for those that really should have a bigger transaxle or push theirs to the limit. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:57 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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So... my tranny occasionally gently grinds into first gear when i've been on the road for a good hour or so, but if on a slight roll or when the engine is cold it does not. yes my clutch is adjusted properly.
previous owner was a dumbass, and the car is 40 years old, so i want to change the gear oil to be safe. from stuff i can get at napa, autozone, oreillys, what should i put in? 80w/90 right? GL5 should be fine? GL4? im scared now with all the peter measurement going on, but i'm inclined to think i'll be safe with GL5...
73 super beetle, stock 4spd. no leaks, nice and quiet tranny. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Kill 2 chickens, paint a blood pentagram below your trans then pour in oil selected at random from the shelf at FLAPS. That's about as much sense as this thread has ever made. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
So... my tranny occasionally gently grinds into first gear when i've been on the road for a good hour or so, but if on a slight roll or when the engine is cold it does not. yes my clutch is adjusted properly.
[snip]
73 super beetle, stock 4spd. no leaks, nice and quiet tranny. |
Provided your engine is stock, or close to it, I would look for oil marked GL-4. It may carry other approvals too. The Beetle does not have a hypoid final drive so there is little need for the extra protection, but you are trying to get a little better shifting from what you typed.
That said, a little grinding when downshifting into 1st at more than a few mph is not unusual. That seems to be a weekness with these boxes. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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If your light grind into 1st is while stopped, and worse warm than when cold, it is quite possible you have a separating clutch disc. The friction surface can "bubble up" off of the steel disc if the rivets are starting to fail in some area. It can create a little drag against the flywheel and spin the input shaft with a little force even though you have pushed the clutch pedal down.
If the noise happens when you are stopped I would not suspect the gear oil. Stopped with the clutch released means nothing in the gearbox should be spinning. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:48 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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EVfun wrote: |
If your light grind into 1st is while stopped, and worse warm than when cold, it is quite possible you have a separating clutch disc. The friction surface can "bubble up" off of the steel disc if the rivets are starting to fail in some area. It can create a little drag against the flywheel and spin the input shaft with a little force even though you have pushed the clutch pedal down.
If the noise happens when you are stopped I would not suspect the gear oil. Stopped with the clutch released means nothing in the gearbox should be spinning. |
my 73 has the "long" release arm on the tranny, so I'll try adjusting it a tad bit tighter and see if that helps. I'm running a 1700# Kennedy with a Daikin disc, and when i pulled the engine recently to do rear tranny mounts i pulled the clutch and it looks brand new, dry, tight, etc. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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jovanybg Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016 Posts: 150 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I will be changing the tranny oil on my 1971 Autostick Ghia with Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90 and will update on the behavior after the change. The description of the oil states is safe for yellow metals and it is GL-4 and GL-5 compatible. |
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Bug-nut Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2015 Posts: 488 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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miniman82 wrote: |
Kill 2 chickens, paint a blood pentagram below your trans then pour in oil selected at random from the shelf at FLAPS. That's about as much sense as this thread has ever made. |
Lol, I love this!
That said, for my own peace of mind, this is what I run in my VW, and it's been running and shifting about as well and flawlessly as a 57 year old, un-restored transmission could. I'm sure GL-5 would work in it just fine, but why take the chance when I don't have to? There. End of discussion and worry on my part.
(As an aside, my AH Sprite uses straight 30 weight, non detergent motor oil in its transmission. Shocking huh? ) _________________ 1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1962 Austin-Healey Sprite
Snort wrote: |
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Bug-nut wrote: |
my Sprite uses straight 30 weight, non detergent motor oil in its transmission. Shocking huh? |
Not really, I had a Ranger that called for ATF in the Mitsu built 5-speed. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50349
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Bug-nut wrote: |
(As an aside, my AH Sprite uses straight 30 weight, non detergent motor oil in its transmission. Shocking huh? ) |
There are automatic tranny fluids which carry GL-4 ratings for transaxle use. As for 30wt, most any 30wt would have met the GL-3 rating and most any 40 wt will meet the GL-4 rating. I have 5w30 oils in the manual tranny in my ancient Toyota Land Cruiser and used the same in the tranny in my ancient Dodge 4x4 truck. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I had a Honda that used ATF in a manual gearbox.
So what's your point? This is a VW forum. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Bug-nut Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2015 Posts: 488 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:40 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Just making some small talk along with my poor attempt at some humor. That was all. _________________ 1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1962 Austin-Healey Sprite
Snort wrote: |
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity. |
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Sandbar Norm Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2008 Posts: 115 Location: A Sandbar in Fl.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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After skimming thru 50+ pages.
For higher hp we should use GL-5 and just accept the harder shifts.
Or use GL-4 and get good drivability with a higher ware.
I'm running a ecotec now with a t1 trans now.
I have a rebuilt 5 rib with a 091 4 spider diff ready to install.
I'm thinking about a turbo with the trans/suspension swap.
Best gear lube to use?
I want smooth shifts so GL-4.
Correct
Norm |
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neil68 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007 Posts: 3440 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Sandbar Norm wrote: |
After skimming thru 50+ pages.
For higher hp we should use GL-5 and just accept the harder shifts.
Or use GL-4 and get good drivability with a higher ware.
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I switched to GL5 several years ago and the shifting became noticeably smoother thereafter. Plus you get the added protection for the OEM German parts that are NLA. _________________ Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50349
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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neil68 wrote: |
Sandbar Norm wrote: |
After skimming thru 50+ pages.
For higher hp we should use GL-5 and just accept the harder shifts.
Or use GL-4 and get good drivability with a higher ware.
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I switched to GL5 several years ago and the shifting became noticeably smoother thereafter. Plus you get the added protection for the OEM German parts that are NLA. |
It is rather pointless to say you "switch to GL-5" unless you specify which oil you switched to as many GL-5 oils give considerably worse shifting. You should also say what oil you switched from. |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Wildthings wrote: |
neil68 wrote: |
Sandbar Norm wrote: |
After skimming thru 50+ pages.
For higher hp we should use GL-5 and just accept the harder shifts.
Or use GL-4 and get good drivability with a higher ware.
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I switched to GL5 several years ago and the shifting became noticeably smoother thereafter. Plus you get the added protection for the OEM German parts that are NLA. |
It is rather pointless to say you "switch to GL-5" unless you specify which oil you switched to as many GL-5 oils give considerably worse shifting. You should also say what oil you switched from. |
What, you want him to clog the thread up with worthless details? _________________ "Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
mark tucker wrote: |
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Sandbar Norm Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2008 Posts: 115 Location: A Sandbar in Fl.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:48 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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SBD wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
neil68 wrote: |
Sandbar Norm wrote: |
After skimming thru 50+ pages.
For higher hp we should use GL-5 and just accept the harder shifts.
Or use GL-4 and get good drivability with a higher ware.
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I switched to GL5 several years ago and the shifting became noticeably smoother thereafter. Plus you get the added protection for the OEM German parts that are NLA. |
It is rather pointless to say you "switch to GL-5" unless you specify which oil you switched to as many GL-5 oils give considerably worse shifting. You should also say what oil you switched from. |
What, you want him to clog the thread up with worthless details? |
No oil in it now, rebuilt and waiting to install.
I was just looking for putting oil that will shift good and help the trans last.
You know, I want the cake and also get to eat it also.
Wildthings, what kind of GL-5?
Norm |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50349
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Sandbar Norm wrote: |
Wildthings, what kind of GL-5?
Norm |
It is neil68 that needs to fill in some blanks and not I. |
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Sandbar Norm Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2008 Posts: 115 Location: A Sandbar in Fl.
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