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otis_bartleh
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009
Posts: 1106
Location: Burlington, WA
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
I am replacing the center pin on my April 57 beam and have a couple quick questions before I proceed.
My beam had shims and the earlier spring washer under the swing arm and no cap.
Do the instructions for lining up the grease groove on page 1 apply to my beam? I know the top bushing should sit flush with the top, my concern is with the groove being in the proper place.
Also, when reaming the new bushings, is it best to ream them dry, or should I use some oil on the reamer? I also thought about using some grease on the reamer to catch some of the shavings.
Is there any downsides from using a socket to turn the reamer? I do not have a large driver at the moment.
Comments? |
Can't speak to the first part, but as to the second, when I did mine, I did a few turns dry, and quickly realized that a bit of lube helped a lot, and doesn't seem to have had a negative effect. I also used a socket as I don't have a driver that large either, and just went slow and steady. It has only been a few months, so I can't speak as to long term effects yet. But even though my steering box is pretty bad, replacing the center pin, tie rods, and drag link made a huge improvement.
I know that is nothing definitive, but hope it helps.
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'59 Mango Bus - getting buried in it
'69 Bug - sold and highly missed, so it stays in the sig |
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kenshapiro2002
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Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Did mine dry, with a long "t" bar. Did it about 9 months ago and all is well.
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have looked through this thread and searched and could not find any good info on setting the swing arm pre-load.
I read the section in the Bently, but I did not see anything mentioned about it in this thread. Is setting the pre-load not all that important?
I had 5 shims under my spring washer and have seen others post they had 3 and 4 shims under theirs. Should I put the pin back in with the same number of shims I og had?
FWIW , generator shims are the same size as the pin shims; I had 2 that were too grooved to clean up and use.
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mpribanic
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2004
Posts: 3177
Location: Neptune Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Just replaced my steering box which greatly improved the slop. However, on deceleration the steering starts to drift to the right, when I try and correct it, it pinballs back to the left. Was looking for driving symptoms & characteristics of a bad center pin. Under acceleration the bus drives perf.
Thanks in Advance.
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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While troubleshooting a noise underneath while having my son move the steering wheel back and forth, I noticed the pin has some play in it. It's flush with the housing, however instead of just spinning in the house, there's some back and forth movement in it and subsequently the pivot arm as well. Normal? I'm guessing "no" and hoping for "yes".
Thank you |
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Fredrok wrote: |
While troubleshooting a noise underneath while having my son move the steering wheel back and forth, I noticed the pin has some play in it. It's flush with the housing, however instead of just spinning in the house, there's some back and forth movement in it and subsequently the pivot arm as well. Normal? I'm guessing "no" and hoping for "yes".
Thank you |
Sorry... No.
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Ken. I sensed it was a stupid question shortly after I hit "submit".
| hazetguy wrote: |
As i said in my initial post, the kit pictured (Febi/Bilstein) contains a poor bolt, and i don't use them. The non threaded portion of the bolt is too short, and the teeth of the bolt can gouge the pin, especially if the pivot arm is loose on the pin or the bolt is not torqued properly or comes loose, allowing movement of the arm and pin.
I've been using modified correct DIN 960 bolts that have the correct length of non threaded shaft. the parts book specifies a 60mm length for 1966 and newer, and this length sticks out past the end of the pivot arm. the length of the earlier bolt is 42mm, and does not stick out nearly as far.
Left: Modified, modern DIN 960 10G bolt. This is correct length as specified by the latest updated Split Bus parts book. Length is 50mm.
2nd from left: Bolt that comes with Febi/Bilstein kit. This is correct length as specified by the latest updated Split Bus parts book. Length is 50mm.
3rd from left: Modified, modern DIN 960 10G bolt. This is the length of early style pinch bolts. Length is 42mm.
Right: Original early style Rasche 8G bolt. Length is 42mm.
The bolt that comes with Febi/Bilstein center pin kit.
Hardly any non threaded shaft where bolts passes through the slot of the pin.
The teeth of the bolt could eat in to the pin, causing premature wear.
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Thank you to all that have contributed to this useful thread. Has anyone found a source stateside for the DIN 960 bolt hazetguy references?
Thanks |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Normal to get worn but it can still function reasonably well.
If your tie rod ends are tight, the link and king pins good, wheel bearings nice, everything greased, steering worm fairly tight, good alignment and good tires, it will still track, steer, and drive ok. |
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Barry. Yes, the rest looks good (until I find the clunking noise) and it drives well - just adding it to my eventual to do list. I'm pulling the tranny in a month or so and may address it while sitting. May.... |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Forgot to post the drag link has to have good ball ends too or you'll get sloppy play at the wheel. |
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Fredrok wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
I've been using modified correct DIN 960 bolts that have the correct length of non threaded shaft. the parts book specifies a 60mm length for 1966 and newer, and this length sticks out past the end of the pivot arm. the length of the earlier bolt is 42mm, and does not stick out nearly as far.
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Has anyone found a source stateside for the DIN 960 bolt hazetguy references? |
i bought the bolts from metric and multistandard www.metricmcc.com
i do not know the exact part number for the bolt. i will do some research in their catalog and see if i can pinpoint which one it is. i will edit this post if/when i do.
the bolt is much longer than it needs to be, mainly because the important thing is the length of the non threaded portion. the only thing about the bolt that i "modified" is the threaded portion. it gets cut off, depending on whether you want the early style or later style length.
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Fantastic, thank you for your extra efforts and of course for all of this great info. |
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Small contribution to a fantastic thread:
Bolt I ordered from Bolt Depot and cut down. Not black oxide but zinc - splitting hairs at that point. Bolt on left is kit bolt, middle original.
For those without a depth micrometer, calipers work great for measuring the upper bushing extension. I managed to get mine at .055, middle of the tolerance.
Rented reamer from WW, $25 + shipping. (zerk fitting is only in there by a thread so I don't lose it)
And for those with a valve spring compressor lying around, it works great for compressing the spring washer.
Thank you hazetguy and to all that contributed to this thread. |
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Okie Adam
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOklahoma
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome thread! Thanks for all the pointers. I'm gonna keep this one bookmarked.
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55 Wolfsburg Kombi
60 Walkthrough Kombi
62 Single Cab
66 21window
67 so42
76 Westy
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2206
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:43 am Post subject: Do I win a prize?... |
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Just pulled the centre pin and driven the bushes out of the beam on my '56 single cab.
This is the sum total of what was there...
Just a few missing parts. 
I think the bushes deserve a prize though...
They each appear to be missing something important... a grease-groove. They're like that all the way round.
Given the other 'deferred maintenance' issues I've found so far, I'm not surprised. I'll confess to being a little disapponted though - this was a shop truck for a VW garage for several years.
I'd have thought they'd have done this right, or if they didn't do it, I'd have thought they'd notice that the steering was as loose as it was and have a look to see why  |
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biggestdaddyo
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Joined: August 25, 2004
Posts: 131
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I hope this is not a hijack, but Ken's pic is absolutely perfect for my question. The tie rod on the left in this picture has the "crimped" non adjustable ends on it. Mine do too. I have noticed just a little bit of wiggle where the tie rod end is crimped into the shaft there. Is this normal? or should I replace it? It probably moves 1mm total. There is no other play anywhere on the front end of my bus...I feel nothing as I'm driving.
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| hitest wrote: |
| The whole procedure took 2 mins. 44 seconds (including one overdue crotch scratch). |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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No, either replace it or do a little welding to make it all one again.
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BDSBSS23
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Joined: January 03, 2008
Posts: 1817
Location: Colorado
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Do I win a prize?... |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
They each appear to be missing something important... a grease-groove. They're like that all the way round.
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Just like "rebuilt" king pin bushings. There's a reason the grease is almost impossible to get in there
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Bruce Amacker
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Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's time to do the center pin, this thread helped me greatly.
Undo the bolt lock, wrench the pinch bolt from the swing arm, remove it, and slide the arm off the top. Push it out of the way, tie rods and all, taking everything off of it is not needed. The shift tube is right overhead and looks like it will be in the way but it doesn't.
Slide that nasty ass pin out the bottom, mine came apart like greased whaleshit.
Pull the seal, washer, and wave washer from the top.
Definitely had moisture in there which rotted the surface of the pin where it rides in the lower bushing.
Probably original with the VW logo, the bushings and everything looked like OEM and it had less than 30 thou wear.
Pull the grease fitting out because it blocks the bushings, and knock the bushings out using a bushing driver kit and brass hammer.
Get the WW kit that I ordered a while back when I saw the slop.
Knock the new upper bushing in, making sure to get the lube groove's pointing the right way. Get the proper protrusion on the upper bushing, .050".
I have a set of adjustable reamers that go from about 3/8" to 1 1/16" inch. Luckily, 24mm is just under an inch.
I set an old bushing in place in the lower part of the tube to keep the reamer centered and gently/carefully reamed out the upper bushing until the new pin would just sneak through. Turning the upper and lower collars on the reamer moves the blades up and down angled ramps which makes the reamer larger or smaller in diameter.
Knock the lower bushing into place with the grooves pointing up and forward. Ream it gently to the right size, which went really fast. Even being careful with the adjustment I didn't have 10 minutes in fitting/reaming.
The pin slides in with finger pressure and doesn't fall out. It turns with very minimal force but has zero side play in any direction. Success!
Heat the upper seal with a heat gun to soften it and
Stretch it over the tube.
Put the lower thrust washer on the pin and slide it into the bushings. Put the wave washer, o-ring, and steering lever into place. To align the groove on the pin to the steering arm I used a tapered punch. This works great not only to align the holes but also to compress the wave washer, which preloads the pin to prevent end play.
Now for the bolt- many don't like the new bolt because the shank is shorter and I agree. I used the old bolt.
But if you pull the tapered punch out the arm pops up and closes the hole. No problem, a beat up C-clamp holds the wave washer compressed while I thread the bolt into place. Put the lock tab on the bolt and install it, mine threaded in the whole way by hand.
Torque to 50.
Put the fitting back in, grease it and the rest of the zerks. Yes, I did wipe them off.
It drives much tighter!
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
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'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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