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Spanish Flea
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 1244
Location: So. Flo.
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 Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| 52HoffmanSplit wrote: |
| sethm wrote: |
| So if the cars were not sent to Max then Who in the US besides him? |
They were ALL sent to Max... he was the sole importer in the US.... however, he acted as the Distributor for East of the Mississippi. The West Coast Distributor was Johnny Von Neumann (another famous racer) and his Competition Motors. Basically, all these VW's came through Hoffman's warehouses and were legally imported by Hoffman.. hence... they are known as Hoffman Cars.. 
My Car I suspect.. was Imported by Hoffman... sent to Competition Motors, who sold it to Sayre VW in Roseburg OR.. which is where it started its life. I Can't prove it... but that's the theory. |
So Let's say my '52, which i belive was sold in Co.
So......
Imported by Hoffman,
Sent to Johnny Von Neumann's distributor's,
Then sent to the Dealer in Colorado,
Sold to John Public.
Is this how it would have gone?
If this was the case, what is the big deal about having a Hoff car. All of them are Hoff cars between those years.
Now the real treat would be if it was sold out of Hoff's Dealership.
Spanish Flea
_________________
Miami Vdubs
Alte Schule
Rare Vintage Air
"Mr. Ford, i don't think what we are being offered here is worth a damn!" - Ernest Breech (On buying VW, March 1948) |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| 52HoffmanSplit wrote: |
| sethm wrote: |
| So if the cars were not sent to Max then Who in the US besides him? |
They were ALL sent to Max... he was the sole importer in the US.... however, he acted as the Distributor for East of the Mississippi. The West Coast Distributor was Johnny Von Neumann (another famous racer) and his Competition Motors. Basically, all these VW's came through Hoffman's warehouses and were legally imported by Hoffman.. hence... they are known as Hoffman Cars..
My Car I suspect.. was Imported by Hoffman... sent to Competition Motors, who sold it to Sayre VW in Roseburg OR.. which is where it started its life. I Can't prove it... but that's the theory. |
So Let's say my '52, which i belive was sold in Co.
So......
Imported by Hoffman,
Sent to Johnny Von Neumann's distributor's,
Then sent to the Dealer in Colorado,
Sold to John Public.
Is this how it would have gone?
If this was the case, what is the big deal about having a Hoff car. All of them are Hoff cars between those years.
Now the real treat would be if it was sold out of Hoff's Dealership.
Spanish Flea |
The point is, that of the HUNDREDS of thousands of split beetles that were produced, only a few hundred were actually imported into the US for sale.
_________________
Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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Spanish Flea
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 1244
Location: So. Flo.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Wiggy wrote: |
| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| 52HoffmanSplit wrote: |
| sethm wrote: |
| So if the cars were not sent to Max then Who in the US besides him? |
They were ALL sent to Max... he was the sole importer in the US.... however, he acted as the Distributor for East of the Mississippi. The West Coast Distributor was Johnny Von Neumann (another famous racer) and his Competition Motors. Basically, all these VW's came through Hoffman's warehouses and were legally imported by Hoffman.. hence... they are known as Hoffman Cars..
My Car I suspect.. was Imported by Hoffman... sent to Competition Motors, who sold it to Sayre VW in Roseburg OR.. which is where it started its life. I Can't prove it... but that's the theory. |
So Let's say my '52, which i belive was sold in Co.
So......
Imported by Hoffman,
Sent to Johnny Von Neumann's distributor's,
Then sent to the Dealer in Colorado,
Sold to John Public.
Is this how it would have gone?
If this was the case, what is the big deal about having a Hoff car. All of them are Hoff cars between those years.
Now the real treat would be if it was sold out of Hoff's Dealership.
Spanish Flea |
The point is, that of the HUNDREDS of thousands of split beetles that were produced, only a few hundred were actually imported into the US for sale. |
This i understand. eg. in 1952, some 114,000 Bugs were made. Of that (if i remember about 930 of them were imported into the USA. (I dont' even think that accounts for 1% of production.)
This i understand of the rarity of having a USA split.
But......
Like i brought up in my prev. post. Would my bug being sold in Colorado be considered a Hoff car?
Spanish Flea
_________________
Miami Vdubs
Alte Schule
Rare Vintage Air
"Mr. Ford, i don't think what we are being offered here is worth a damn!" - Ernest Breech (On buying VW, March 1948) |
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52HoffmanSplit
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Lamorinda CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| (if i remember about 930 of them were imported into the USA) |
In 1952 604 were imported into the US, 930 in 1953... in fact between January of 1950 and Dec 1953 Max Hoffman Motor Cars imported just under 2000 VW's.
There were 435,363 total Type 11/15's made in that time period and about 0.4% were sold in the US. That's pretty much why we think they are special.
| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| But......Like i brought up in my prev. post. Would my bug being sold in Colorado be considered a Hoff car? |
Probably, however, perhaps it was brought back by a US serviceman and then sold immediately (this happened often) and then resold by the Colorado dealership. Only way to check is to order your Birth Certifcate and if it says the Destination was VW Distributing, New York NY.. then its almost certainly a Hoffman Car.
Does your Split have a MPH Speedo in it? Also, check for USA in Yellow grease pencil on the front under tank area where your Vin Tag and Body Number are. It may still be visible, mine is.
_________________
DB
9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117 |
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Spanish Flea
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 1244
Location: So. Flo.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 52HoffmanSplit wrote: |
| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| (if i remember about 930 of them were imported into the USA) |
In 1952 604 were imported into the US, 930 in 1953... in fact between January of 1950 and Dec 1953 Max Hoffman Motor Cars imported just under 2000 VW's.
There were 435,363 total Type 11/15's made in that time period and about 0.4% were sold in the US. That's pretty much why we think they are special.
| Spanish Flea wrote: |
| But......Like i brought up in my prev. post. Would my bug being sold in Colorado be considered a Hoff car? |
Probably, however, perhaps it was brought back by a US serviceman and then sold immediately (this happened often) and then resold by the Colorado dealership. Only way to check is to order your Birth Certifcate and if it says the Destination was VW Distributing, New York NY.. then its almost certainly a Hoffman Car.
Does your Split have a MPH Speedo in it? Also, check for USA in Yellow grease pencil on the front under tank area where your Vin Tag and Body Number are. It may still be visible, mine is. |
I think my pod is a KPH. (I say think because my split has been in storage for 10 years. It was restored 5 years ago and put back in storge. I've only put about 20 miles on it, since i've owned it.)
Plus it has gone though a Pan Up resto. There was no USA marked in the front.
But i do have a pot-iron dealer badge. i'll shoot a pix tonight and post it.
I do NOT have the Birth Cert. I should have gotten that 10 years ago, when the mark was weak.
Spanish Flea (checking the ghost account to see if i have enough to give for a Birth Cert)
_________________
Miami Vdubs
Alte Schule
Rare Vintage Air
"Mr. Ford, i don't think what we are being offered here is worth a damn!" - Ernest Breech (On buying VW, March 1948) |
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concoursmotors
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2004
Posts: 38
Location: milwaukee
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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several cars were delivered through the dealership I work at, Concours Motors in Milwaukee, WI
we are still a VW and Porsche dealer!!!
The owner was a race car driver and that is how I assume he hooked up with Hoffman in his day.
We still have the original owner also!!
I've read of several cars being delivered through Concours on registrys etc. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2002
Posts: 1243
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow I did not know that Frank Lloyd Wright designed max's show room and house. I'll have to look in the Frank Lloyd Wright book I gave my dad for xmass. |
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brian1957
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Colorado Springs, CO.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a possibility that any of these cars were not painted in the standard colors from the year of manufacture? I have questioned the color of my car and wondered if Hoffman asked that VW paint them colors that were more appealing so that they would sell. I just ask because my birth certificate came back "color not mentioned", as I have heard several others had the same experience.
Were these cars to be sent to the US, set aside and sprayed in colors that may have made them more desirable in the US?
Thanks for your time |
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eric lussier
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2001
Posts: 10
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: hoffman 50 |
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| A friend came over the other day and was looking at my 1950 deluxe split project and noticed 4 small holes in the apron where a dealer badge once was and he started rambling about it being a hoffman dealer car? It is a deluxe that was pastel green originally that i bought about 15 years ago here in phoenix arizona. body number is 138661 and the pan# is 1-0191109. got it with an oklahoma title orig. No motor came in the car as didnt most of the parts like the speedo etc so im guessing at best where it came from. anyone wanna help me here to identify this as a correct hoffman car. how do I go about getting this things history as well? has anyone seen one of these dealer badges that went in the "H" of the apron as well?? |
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33woodie
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2006
Posts: 191
Location: "Old Town" Tustin, California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: Re: hoffman 50 |
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| eric lussier wrote: |
| A friend came over the other day and was looking at my 1950 deluxe split project and noticed 4 small holes in the apron where a dealer badge once was and he started rambling about it being a hoffman dealer car? It is a deluxe that was pastel green originally that i bought about 15 years ago here in phoenix arizona. body number is 138661 and the pan# is 1-0191109. got it with an oklahoma title orig. No motor came in the car as didnt most of the parts like the speedo etc so im guessing at best where it came from. anyone wanna help me here to identify this as a correct hoffman car. how do I go about getting this things history as well? has anyone seen one of these dealer badges that went in the "H" of the apron as well?? |
If you send for a "birth certificate" for your car to the VW Museum in Germany, it will include which distributor/country that the car was sold to.
Regards,
Jim
_________________
'59 Porsche 356 Conv."D" Meissen Blue
'70 Porsche 914-6 Tangerine
'68 Porsche 911R Light Ivory
'72 Porsche 911S Albert Blue/Red leather
'11 Porsche Carrera 4S Black |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24079
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| brian1957 wrote: |
Is there a possibility that any of these cars were not painted in the standard colors from the year of manufacture? I have questioned the color of my car and wondered if Hoffman asked that VW paint them colors that were more appealing so that they would sell. I just ask because my birth certificate came back "color not mentioned", as I have heard several others had the same experience.
Were these cars to be sent to the US, set aside and sprayed in colors that may have made them more desirable in the US?
Thanks for your time |
We don't know if Hoffman was personally responsible, but the answer is yes! My own '52 Hoffman zwitter was painted two-tone dark blue with light blue sides, and it's apparent the color combo dated back to the '50s, because the car was repainted in the early '60s and after so many years the two-tone was showing through.
It has been documented that VWs were often painted more appealing colors other than the drab brown, green or blue it came through in. So it's very possible your car was repainted when it was new. But having said that, it's also common for birth certificates not to mention color. The birth certificate for my '52 standard doesn't list a color, and it was sold new in Germany. |
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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sorry to dig up a sorta old thread, but while i was going through some of my paperwork, i found a piece of advertising i've had for many years. it's a double sided Hoffman advertisement. i don't know the exact date or what magazine it may have been in (if in one at all), but the cardboard backing that was in the envelope i got the piece with says "1952 Volkswagen". enjoy.
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hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I thought Hoffman offered the Standard also? Up until a year or so ago I thought Stds were never sold in the US, but someone posted a US market brochure showing one, and I thought it was Hoffman?
It was prior to the establishment of VW of America.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24079
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Volkswagen United States, and then Volkswagen of America, weren't established until 1955. The Hoffman contract expired at the end of 1953, and during '54, the company dealt directly with the contacts that Hoffman had established.
A few standards made their way over, but keep in mind the Deluxe was also called the Export, and the company always targeted its top-of-the-line models at the U.S. We don't know the precise date, but I'm sure at a certain point the company began to discourage importation of the Standard, and it probably happened quite early on.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
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Wiggy
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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hazetguy
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Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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i am going to speculate that the $1395 price could be for a standard. notice how the deluxe model is $200 more expensive.
bait and switch?
get you in the door type advertising?
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| hazetguy wrote: |
i am going to speculate that the $1395 price could be for a standard. notice how the deluxe model is $200 more expensive.
bait and switch?
get you in the door type advertising? |
Yeah, you may be right, I hadn't noticed that the $1395 price wasn't on any of the model thumbnails.....
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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WM971252
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2004
Posts: 1781
Location: Franklin CT
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| My standard is a Hoffman (50) |
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ratghia
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Red Lion, PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| My 1952 standard zwitter is also a Hoffman |
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