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andk5591
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Holy shit - havent checked this topic for a while and didnt realize it was almost 200 pages long! Shocked But there is a thread like this on pretty much every classic car forum out there because everyone has the same issue.

What is really funny is that technically this should be a very cut and dried topic, but it will never be. The oil producers are very protective of their recipes so it can be hard and confusing to sort out. And of course the "Hell, I ran Castrol GTX for 3 billion miles in the 70s and still do" folks will rarely get it that oil formulations have had to change over the years. It is what it is.

There are good choices out there and you just have to use what meets your comfort level. I run Amsoil Z-rod since it is designed specifically for a flat tappet engine and I am satisfied with that. Lots of other options.

Have a great weekend!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

I knew a guy back in the 80's that took Amsoil (I think the first Amsoil Synthetic was a blend..) and some Mobil One and some regular non synthetic oil and painted them onto some pistons with rings and put them in his oven and followed what happened to each by 350' The Amsoil crusted up on the rings the Mobil One ran off but was ok. regular oil ran off and crusted up on the pan. The Mobil one did not vaporize even at 400' F.

I don't know though Mobil one is just too expensive to change every 3000 miles and in an air cooled engine it's good to get oil changed every 3000 as it is exposed to pretty high temperatures in the heads.
I have tried Synthetic Oils twice and both times it resulted in harding of my oil seals and leaking out. It started a major oil leaks in my 944 engine and in my wife's Toyota but seal softener and going back to regular oil repaired them, I did eventually wind up having the Porsche seals replaced.
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andk5591
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
I knew a guy back in the 80's that took Amsoil (I think the first Amsoil Synthetic was a blend..) and some Mobil One and some regular non synthetic oil and painted them onto some pistons with rings and put them in his oven and followed what happened to each by 350' The Amsoil crusted up on the rings the Mobil One ran off but was ok. regular oil ran off and crusted up on the pan. The Mobil one did not vaporize even at 400' F.

I don't know though Mobil one is just too expensive to change every 3000 miles and in an air cooled engine it's good to get oil changed every 3000 as it is exposed to pretty high temperatures in the heads.
I have tried Synthetic Oils twice and both times it resulted in harding of my oil seals and leaking out. It started a major oil leaks in my 944 engine and in my wife's Toyota but seal softener and going back to regular oil repaired them, I did eventually wind up having the Porsche seals replaced.


I know what you are saying about the expense ( I have 4 ACVWs on the road) but when I had 2 low milage engines requiring lifter bores to be resleeved ater using Shell Rotella exclusively, I determined oil was cheaper.... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
I don't know though Mobil one is just too expensive to change every 3000 miles and in an air cooled engine it's good to get oil changed every 3000 as it is exposed to pretty high temperatures in the heads.


At $28 for 4qts of Mobile 1 5w40 Turbo Diesel Oil if you run 12K miles per year and do 3000 miles oil changes it is only going to cost you $70 per annum plus the cost of any makeup oil. For myself with a T4, a quart of extra oil in the crankcase, and an improved crankcase ventilation system I change at closer to once every 6000 miles and sometimes even more.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Why do you run Turbo Diesel Oil? Does it have some benefit over gasoline engine motor oil?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Why do you run Turbo Diesel Oil? Does it have some benefit over gasoline engine motor oil?


Most all the 5W40 oils are primarily marketed for Diesel use but they all carry "SL/SM/SN" ratings as well so they are 100% fine for use in a gasoline engine. The 5W rating makes for easy year around starting, while the 40 rating means the oil isn't required to have reduced ZDDP.

I don't buy the Mobile 1 Turbo Diesel Oil because of it name, but because it is a gasoline rated synthetic oil that has the specifications I desire in an oil.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

So I wonder if the Mobile 1 would be a good oil for my engine that seems to be going through a 1/2 quart or more per hour of driving every time I take it out on the freeway above 65 mph. Not sure what happens to it, I have heard that 74mm crank engines (which this is) loose their oil . I do get some mist from the breather etc but not that much. And some out one of the carbs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

I first started running Mobile 1 in an attempt to get a WBXer engine to quit using oil and it worked for a long while, ~140K miles, before the oil use became excessive again. Have tried it on other oil burners and on some it has helped and other others it has been a waste. YMMV
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

My best bet is it's burning it, I haven't even looked as the spark plugs been in there since first fired. Well except #2 which was clean. Maybe a plug has oil deposits, you know I think it may be the valve guides on heads as they were rebuilt heads but they did not need guides according to the shop so they may be original with 100K miles on the guides by now. Never see any smoke! It was the plan to replace them anyhow it's just they're port matched and all and it runs good and a welded #2 plug hole is holding up so far. Who knows where the oil goes I guess if Mobile 1 helps that would tell us something but I am not sure what.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

1/2 quart per 60 miles is a lot IMHO - I would think you would see blue smoke...a lot of blue smoke.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Could I just ask one question here without having to sift through 200 pages of Masters level Chemistry Laughing I read on aircooled.net that they recommend running fully synthetic 10w30 in almost all applications - unless running totally stock oiling - which I'm not. I run 10w30 part synthetic in my 2180 with no apparent running hot, pressure issues or leaks. Am I missing a trick here?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

richierich wrote:
Could I just ask one question here without having to sift through 200 pages of Masters level Chemistry Laughing I read on aircooled.net that they recommend running fully synthetic 10w30 in almost all applications - unless running totally stock oiling - which I'm not. I run 10w30 part synthetic in my 2180 with no apparent running hot, pressure issues or leaks. Am I missing a trick here?

Nope, sounds like your engine is happy and there's no need to overthink it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
My best bet is it's burning it, I haven't even looked as the spark plugs been in there since first fired. Well except #2 which was clean. Maybe a plug has oil deposits, you know I think it may be the valve guides on heads as they were rebuilt heads but they did not need guides according to the shop so they may be original with 100K miles on the guides by now. Never see any smoke! It was the plan to replace them anyhow it's just they're port matched and all and it runs good and a welded #2 plug hole is holding up so far. Who knows where the oil goes I guess if Mobile 1 helps that would tell us something but I am not sure what.
It only uses 1 quart of the Castrol 5W30 in about 1300 -1500 miles driving if I stay away from the freeway and stay here on the coast where it is cool.
Here is a old photo of the #2 Spark Plug after the first 3000 miles 14000 now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

So, after using the "search" function, and reading through many pages in this oil forum, there seems to be a lot of arguing of which oil is the best for our engines. I've been out of the aircooled world for a long time and am installing a 2110 in my '69 vert this weekend, it's a weekend warrior with idas and I'm getting pretty concerned about oil choices. Coming from the '80's and using nothing but 30wt Valvoline for many years in my vws, I'm at a loss now! Diesel oil? Valvoline vr1? Synthetic? Dino? What weights do we want? I'm at 7000' mainly drive on the street, never see 100 degrees,suggestions? How about the oil filter? I always used the Fram hp1 and never had any problems, but now I see that those are poorly made now?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

cousineddy wrote:
So, after using the "search" function, and reading through many pages in this oil forum, there seems to be a lot of arguing of which oil is the best for our engines. I've been out of the aircooled world for a long time and am installing a 2110 in my '69 vert this weekend, it's a weekend warrior with idas and I'm getting pretty concerned about oil choices. Coming from the '80's and using nothing but 30wt Valvoline for many years in my vws, I'm at a loss now! Diesel oil? Valvoline vr1? Synthetic? Dino? What weights do we want? I'm at 7000' mainly drive on the street, never see 100 degrees,suggestions? How about the oil filter? I always used the Fram hp1 and never had any problems, but now I see that those are poorly made now?


Oils with a last number of 40 or higher are not required to have reduced ZDDP, nor are straight weight oils. "High mileage" oils can also have higher levels of ZDDP.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

cousineddy wrote:
So, after using the "search" function, and reading through many pages in this oil forum, there seems to be a lot of arguing of which oil is the best for our engines. I've been out of the aircooled world for a long time and am installing a 2110 in my '69 vert this weekend, it's a weekend warrior with idas and I'm getting pretty concerned about oil choices. Coming from the '80's and using nothing but 30wt Valvoline for many years in my vws, I'm at a loss now! Diesel oil? Valvoline vr1? Synthetic? Dino? What weights do we want? I'm at 7000' mainly drive on the street, never see 100 degrees,suggestions? How about the oil filter? I always used the Fram hp1 and never had any problems, but now I see that those are poorly made now?


There isn't one particular oil that will be perfect for every engine, I will suggest having accurate oil temp and oil psi gauges and choose your oil based on the readings. If this is a new engine start with a 5-30 for a baseline.

This topic is a bit overwhelming, I know what works for me, I've never had an engine failure and really don't pay attention to those who say "this oil will cause problems"
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
cousineddy wrote:
So, after using the "search" function, and reading through many pages in this oil forum, there seems to be a lot of arguing of which oil is the best for our engines. I've been out of the aircooled world for a long time and am installing a 2110 in my '69 vert this weekend, it's a weekend warrior with idas and I'm getting pretty concerned about oil choices. Coming from the '80's and using nothing but 30wt Valvoline for many years in my vws, I'm at a loss now! Diesel oil? Valvoline vr1? Synthetic? Dino? What weights do we want? I'm at 7000' mainly drive on the street, never see 100 degrees,suggestions? How about the oil filter? I always used the Fram hp1 and never had any problems, but now I see that those are poorly made now?


Oils with a last number of 40 or higher are not required to have reduced ZDDP, nor are straight weight oils. "High mileage" oils can also have higher levels of ZDDP.


Note that ANY "SM" or "SN" grade oil is only rated for use in 2007 or later engines.
It's in the spec...

The "out" is that "Heavy Duty" oil is also not required to be 800ppm zinc/phos, it can still be SM/SN rated etc. (any SAE 40 or higher is HD, but can also apply to 10W30)

... but Castrol decided to go <800 ppm (as low as 600 ppm) anyway on GTX. (all grades)
(killing many hipo engines when they did it, and telling no one)

This forces you to buy the "Edge" or "Syntec" synthetics for proper ZDDP levels.
(if you still want to do business with Castrol, I won't, they owe me 2 motors//build time)

I buy Mobil1, Purolator ONE, or K&N oil filters.
(all ~same spec and off the same line with different paint on the can)
... but I also only change my oil/filter every 12K miles like the manuals suggest for my T4.

The cheap orange filters have killed more than one engine by coming apart, wads of filter material on top of the rear relief piston restricts oil flow pretty well... That or they blow off, but that was a long time ago when those were banned by ~all racing organizations,
The more expensive Frams are allegedly fine. Its your wallet.

I have had great luck for the last ~400K miles with Rotella T6 or Mobil1 Turbo Diesel Truck, (both 5W-40) whichever is on sale.
(NOT "truck and SUV", that's garbage with 800ppm zinc)


The 15W-40 is a little iffy on ZDDP at ~1200 PPM but also has some boron, as does the T6. (~1450 ppm zinc for the latter last I looked it up)

FWIW, the T6 also has the lowest running "metallic wear" results in the Club TDi UOAs.

And to turn all that on its head:


Here's an interesting blog from an engineer who paid for a LOT of testing, and his results are quite contrary to the real world results from many other sources, but interesting none the less.... It looks solid,.

For example, in his testing, Castrol GTX well outscores Brad Penn Racing oil, most Gibbs oils, and such.
BOTH my cam wipe events were running GTX 20W-50 for break in.
Jake Raby called it "Liquid Death" based on his testing...

THIS testing with the available "ZDDP" additives was quite revealing, most brands tested "restroyed" the base oil lubricating ability. (Nods to Tram) .

Rotella, Brad Penn racing oil, and most of the oils we swear by preformed quite horribly here.
The best oils "out of the bottle"? 0W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability (the 5W30 flavor of same was way up there too, and both still outstanding tested at 275F)

Worth a read, just to confuse things:
Grab a chair....
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

My head is spinning!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

we are gonna' start up the motor soon for first time in ? years, we've drained and refilled w/ oil several times while hand cranking and/or using screw gun to spin engine oil drains clean now , gonna get some straight 30 wt. for start up, question is " detergent vs non-detergent ", unclear which to use thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Asleep@thewheel wrote:
we are gonna' start up the motor soon for first time in ? years, we've drained and refilled w/ oil several times while hand cranking and/or using screw gun to spin engine oil drains clean now , gonna get some straight 30 wt. for start up, question is " detergent vs non-detergent ", unclear which to use thanks


I have never put non-detergent in my crankcase, probably never will. A single oil change would have been sufficient. If you had enough water and other contaminants in your oil to justify more than one change, then severe damage would have already have been done.
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