Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic

modok · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:37 am Post subject:

If I can remember splainin it to ya then you probbly darn well remember too.
While some of my abilities are upper 90 percentile my memory is in the lower 10%. Ask anybody! I scarecely remember where I live.
The answer is DETERGENT!

My buddy Mike just today asked why I want to put special oil in the new engine we just bolted up. I said, "Low detergent oil will work better to break it in, it's a new engine......so....we don't need much detergent, as there are no deposits in there to worry about, were trying to MAKE deposits."

You CAN add......additives to oil but it's harder to remove them.
Diesel oils have a LOT of detergent and PH stabilizers, which helps suspend carbon, allow long intervals between changes, but also can counter the action of some EP additives(zddp).

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:42 am Post subject:

Ah! So you don't want a diesel rated oil for break-in.

I just got some break-in oil yesterday. 30 grade Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1. (That's a lot of Penns and Grades.) Let the break-in begin!
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine?

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject:

Perhaps. But now it sounds like we're getting into simply opinion differences. No document that I've seen saying not to use diesel oil in a gasoline engine nor any document saying moderate ZDDP oil during break-in is better than using break-in oil.

I think personally I'll just use break-in oil for my break-ins, diesel oil for my diesel engines, gasoline oil for my gasoline engines, oil for new car models in my new cars, oil for classic cars models in my classic cars, racing oil in my race cars, and olive oil in my salad. Laughing

_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine?

Singerdude · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject:

You forgot snake oil in your snake. You could also safely use elbow grease in your knees as long as it is certified S&M (assuming you exhibit either sadist or masochist tendencies) I unfortunately don't have the litterature to back my claim but I've been told so by the neighbor of the guy who mows the lawn for a man who blogs about these things. Cool

Glenn · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject:

Singerdude · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject:

Definitely NOT virgin Wink

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modok · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject:

Thick heads!
Detergents and EP additives are a BALANCE. ALL zddp is not created equal.
it is formulated to burn off quick or slow, depending on the application.
If I'm gonna dump the oil after 100 or 2000 miles then I don't need a ton of detergents and other additives formulated to slowly release over half a year of haulin a forklift, and having them in there is just INTERFERING with the anti-scuff additives. Both are sacrificial!
Citing Joe gibbs as proof not enough? ok I googled it for you and this came up

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&am...ids1gt4XDg

Bodacious · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject:

I do not know the particulars but, when the particulate filters were put in place and the sulfur was taken out of diesel fuel the engine oils also changed. I used to run Rotella in everything, if you notice Rotella and Delo have gotten ridiculously cheap as well. I'm not one to scoff at a good deal but one has to wonder. My 3500 Dodge had an extended sump and held almost 3 gallons of oil. That gave a lot of headway, but our little buddies just hold 2.5, 3 with filter. So I would think we should stay within tolerance. But like my old man used to say, if it ain't broke ........ I am going to try and give this VR1 a good run and I will report back what I find.
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle
Baja Transformation in Progress
1600 DP ( 2110 in the works)
10A Rally Yellow
Daily Driver

modok · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:04 pm Post subject:

I just follow the instructions.
The bottle says what it's for although the hype is hard to sift through.
There are now four major brands competing for the classic car market!

-Joe Gibbs
-Brad Penn
-Valvoline VR1
-Maxima

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject:

I've finally decided to just go with Brad Penn. I don't have to worry about it not having enough grades to choose from or certain grades that don't have enough ZDDP nor do I have to turn the bottle over every time I go to buy it to make sure the API rating hasn't changed. Pluss it has a picture of a classic car on the bottle.

The VR1, Joe Gibbs, Amzoil Z-Rod, API SL oils and anything 20W-50 I'm sure all work fine. But this is my choice and I'll have to live with it. If my engine blows up because of it maybe I'll try something different next time.
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine?

Singerdude · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject:

I've used Brad Penn, I've also purchased some VR1 and have been hesitant to switch over. In fact I was gonna use VR1 for my 2110 and when the engine got to the shop for post-freight repairs, I got wooed by the sales-pitch from the shop guy who incidently is a Brad Penn dealer. If the performance of the 2 oils is somewhat equal, I think I might just pull the (drain) plug and go VR1 if just for the wider availability.

I used plenty of Maxima products in my motocross years and they were always top notch products. If they have an oil with the right amount of ZDDP, I wouldn't hesitate to use that one moment.

The same goes for Joe Gibbs.

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351

modok · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:13 pm Post subject:

I don't know either.
but it says:
"Many studies have investigated the interaction of Ca
based detergents and dispersants (phenates, sulfonates,
salicylates) with ZDDPs.
9–17
The consensus is that the
efficacy of ZDDPs is retarded through a competition of
detergents and dispersants either absorbing on the
surface or limiting the interaction between ZDDPs
and the metal,
3,18,19
both routes resulting in antagonistic
behaviour with respect to antiwear performance.
Overbased detergents have also been shown to diminish
the antioxidant properties of ZDDPs, while the more
basic detergent seems to improve the frictional proper-ties of the oil.
13"
you could lookup sources 9-19 for further reading.


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