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WrennMetallWerks
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Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2652
Location: Rescue ca
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hugheseum
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2004
Posts: 2690
Location: oregon
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 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: |
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all these are neat but they really lack any upper body support,they need to tie into the rain gutters or on the trucks at the upper rear framemembers
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57palm
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Needs Improvement/support huh?? |
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Some guys here mentioned the inability to open doors or the need to support the top of the bus as as draw back. All I can say is NOT TRUE and NOT TRUE.
This style rotisserie is so easy to make and use. I can roll my bus over by myself with no risk whatsoever of danger or damage. I can remove or install it in about 1/2 hour by myself with a jack and a few stands. It can be stored against a wall in almost no space. It adds no extra length to the bus. The top can be removeable to access upper areas.
The entire bus is supported on the suspension only when driving this includes rough roads, bumps, heavily loaded etc. Why would using the same attach points not be strong enough for a stationary empty shell ????
Also remember the use of a rotisserie is mainly for access to the bottom of the bus. Why would you ever have to have the doors on when working on the bottom of the bus ?? Dog legs you say ? with some simple foresight these can be fitted and aligned with doors before there is any need for the hoops.
All I can finally say is, if you have not used this style of rotisserie try not to be so negative about what you do not understand. They are the best thing going for a number of reasons.
RM |
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blackdog1999 
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Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
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57palm is right. All rotisseris have drawbacks. This set-up is designed for accessing the underside of the Bus & rocker area without having to lay on the ground. Any work on the 4 sides of the Bus should be done without these in place & while the Bus is in a normal upright position.
This design is also designed to be able to work on the roof area of the Bus comfortably.
People mention that you can not open your doors or work on doglegs with this style. This comment confuses me. Why would you want to set your door & dogleg leg alignment while the Bus is not under it's correct stess points. If you are setting gaps with a Vehicle or Bus in a rotisseri that attaches to anything but the frame near the stock suspension point this may change your final gap. Any minor flex from attaching to the bumper mounts will cause an opposite flex to the body from when it is eventually placed back on it's stock suspension. It may be minor, but why would you want to risk hours of work & frustratrion only to set it down on its wheel & your front doors are crooked by 1/8" or more. Just imagine how far off a convertible would be if you did this.
When discussing material, Rebirth suggested a sturdy thick walled box tubing to cut down on the possible flexing or racking while the Bus is on it's side. I have also thought about the possibility of flexing or racking in transport. If this is ever a concern we will make a removable, same guage, bar that connects the 2 hoops at the top.
Again these are just made to access the underside & maybe the roof of the Bus confortably. They are not designed to be used while the Bus is on a frame rack or any other heavy duty pulling situation. Also these should only be used on a Bus that is fully disassembled
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Last edited by blackdog1999 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Needs Improvement/support huh?? |
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| 57palm wrote: |
| The entire bus is supported on the suspension only when driving this includes rough roads, bumps, heavily loaded etc. Why would using the same attach points not be strong enough for a stationary empty shell ???? |
The loads imposed on the suspension pickup points in normal use are completely different than those which would be imposed with the bus on its side. For this reason, you want to distribute the load across a wider area, hence using the roof to help support the bus.
Try this: strap on a pair of roller blades. Stand up. Your ankles probably hold you just fine, right? Now - while still wearing the roller blades - have someone clamp the wheels on a bench vise. How's that workin' out for ya?
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1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
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1963 Unimog 404
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camerod
Volksfab
Joined: October 01, 2002
Posts: 606
Location: washington state
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| hugheseum wrote: |
| all these are neat but they really lack any upper body support,they need to tie into the rain gutters or on the trucks at the upper rear framemembers |
Adam is used to working on buses like this....if you rolled this over in a rotisserie the body would fall off or apart!
I have had my bus on its rotisserie for months now with absolutely no issues.
BUT If it was going to get as cut up as Adams bus I would probably weld some additional temporary support to the roof line or frame as needed.
or better yet, take care of the major structural problems before it ever goes into any kind of a rotisserie!
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blackdog1999
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Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Needs Improvement/support huh?? |
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| thom wrote: |
| 57palm wrote: |
| The entire bus is supported on the suspension only when driving this includes rough roads, bumps, heavily loaded etc. Why would using the same attach points not be strong enough for a stationary empty shell ???? |
The loads imposed on the suspension pickup points in normal use are completely different than those which would be imposed with the bus on its side. For this reason, you want to distribute the load across a wider area, hence using the roof to help support the bus.
Try this: strap on a pair of roller blades. Stand up. Your ankles probably hold you just fine, right? Now - while still wearing the roller blades - have someone clamp the wheels on a bench vise. How's that workin' out for ya? |
Thom & Cameron you are right. This rotisseri design is only good for minor work or detail cleaning & painting. Any major structural work has to be done with a different set-up.
My truck does not have any structural issues & will not be stored on any angle. If I am not directly working on it it will be it a standard upright position.
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Needs Improvement/support huh?? |
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| blackdog1999 wrote: |
My truck does not have any structural issues & will not be stored on any angle. If I am not directly working on it it will be it a standard upright position. |
this is how I treat my bus as well, when I am done working on it for the day I rotate it back upright. The door gaps have yet to move even a 1/16"
I am using one of the cameron/aaron rotisseries.
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57palm
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: frame jigs or rotisserie ? |
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Home for lunch and see I opened a can of worms.
Yeah for sure using this rotisserie on a bus with the cargo floor missing or any other major structures gone is a bad idea. Heck with the cargo floor and rockers gone I could rock my bus by hand and get the cargo doors opening to twist 1/2 inch or more. Having said that unless your are going to make a frame alignment jig or extensively brace the bus putting it in any rotisserie with major parts removed is a bad idea.
I think the confusion can be between the description of "rotisserie" and "chassis/frame jig". If your rotisserie is so well built as to be an exacting frame jig I would suggest it is no longer just a rotisserie. They use this sort of equipment in aviation all the time they are called airframe jigs and are used to rebuilt fuselages from the ground up with exacting measurements for all hard point locations. I am sure VW must have used many exact frame jigs at the factory. They are not rotisseries.
RM |
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WrennMetallWerks
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Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2652
Location: Rescue ca
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WrennMetallWerks
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Posts: 2652
Location: Rescue ca
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hugheseum
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2004
Posts: 2690
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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these racks or rottisseries as you like to call them are neat,ive been using this style for yrs,honestly the best part of their use comes when its time to paint the underside,the future will be different,i truly believe high end restos will happen on frame fixtures/tables not on rottisseries
cameron,your funny
that 58 15 will go on a fixture table not a rottisserie,whats funny to me is that you experts use the frame only as a mount......do you realize that a rusty bus (bottom 6-12 inches rot) is being held together by the roof? there arent many pillars that survive that hold the piles together (up)
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BEANS
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Started mine today
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johnny fever
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Beaver, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: Rotisserie |
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I just posted a few pics of my 62 on a rotisserie in the gallery. Please check them out. This rig was built by Mike Bryce for his Dbl cab. The dolly section bolts on securely and the bus rolls around the shop like a champ. Perfect for doing all my welding and body work. Then the rotisserie section bolts on separately. It rolls easily to the 45 then on over to the side. Very solid and stable. Has a brace that runs the length of the drip rail. And a brace on the side behind the cargo door opening. I added another brace to the door pillar just for fun. This rig has been a true joy to use. Simple, effective. I think Mike said it cost him less than 600$ for all the materials. Design was from some guy in Australia.
I was able to clean, sand, prep and paint the entire underside and eng. compartment easily. Next will be the roof, then I will remove the rotisserie section and finish the paint work. |
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58deluxerag
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 1729
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: |
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'58 Binz
'58 Beetle Ragtop
'65 Sundial |
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gatorwyatt
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Joined: April 24, 2002
Posts: 1867
Location: Clearwater Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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this is just an opinion coming from the guy that does the blast work...when you build a jig that allows the bus to only go up on on side and not on both it definately takes away from the quality of work the media blaster can do....when i shoot a bus i have to flip it back and forth to get all the details shot...just another perspectice.
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58deluxerag
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 1729
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm wondering how that one (Johnny Fevers) bolted up to a doublecab. The upper rear brace rest on the Bus body, there wouldn't be anything there on a double.
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'58 Binz
'58 Beetle Ragtop
'65 Sundial |
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| 58deluxerag wrote: |
| I'm wondering how that one (Johnny Fevers) bolted up to a doublecab. The upper rear brace rest on the Bus body, there wouldn't be anything there on a double. |
Didn't he say he added that brace to fit the bus?
I like the idea of a one sided rotisserie for small shops. I understand the point of view of the blaster, though.
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58deluxerag
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 1729
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| 58deluxerag wrote: |
| I'm wondering how that one (Johnny Fevers) bolted up to a doublecab. The upper rear brace rest on the Bus body, there wouldn't be anything there on a double. |
Didn't he say he added that brace to fit the bus?
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Yup, still curious as to how it looks mounted to a double.
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'58 Binz
'58 Beetle Ragtop
'65 Sundial |
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MrBusCo
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Joined: February 13, 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: stoughton, WI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| it looks like you unbolt the side part and can bolt it on the opposite side of the bus to flip it the other direction. |
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a small piece of trucker mud flap rubber to the bottom of the presr foot to protect the roof of the bus from gouging when it is rotated.... 
