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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: modification |
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[quote="sancho58"]
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| racoguy wrote: |
| Looking at your pictures Chris, making a bracket to "fix" the corner issue is very very easy easy and making the over rider fit would not be all that difficult either... |
Great Idea ! Most hardware stores Carry sheet metal what gauge did you use ? Also if you don't own a welder you can take it to a local muffler shop for. tack welding... |
I'm going back to the guys who did the body and paint for me tomorrow. They'll make and tack in position the brackets I have in mind - in stainless steel. I'll know what gauge tomorrow. I'll do some grinding on the over-riders while I'm there to see if I can "straighten" them a bit.
I'll record the process and post some photos - since others are likely to have the same problem when they try to fit their stainless steel bumpers from Vietnam.
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1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| semipixel wrote: |
I had the same issue with the over riders not fitting, mentioned earlier in this thread. They seem to have sent either all rights or all lefts, can't remember. One side fit fine but the other had the angle exaggerated. I very clearly laid out the issue and they sent me 2 replacement over riders...
Of course they just sent the same (wrong) ones again.
Upside is now I have a couple extra so I'm comfortable modifying them, shouldn't be hard to adjust with a little grinding. |
Thanks for the advice. In my case both front bumpers were "squint", the R side more than the left. I took to the grinder as you suggested, but it wasn't "a little grinding", eh! It took multiple series of (1) Mark where to grind (2) remove from bumper (3) grind (4) replace on bumper (5) and reassess (and back to (1) again). But the end result is acceptable.
I marked them like this:
After all that grinding - I must have refitted the first one at least 7 times - the R side one is more or less straight. Like this:
The L side one required less grinding and is now aligned with the R side one. When I do the final fitting I'll double-check and grind some more if necessary. In the meantime I'm going to have the brackets made for the front corners tomorrow. But now I'm going to go to the pub for a Guinness (maybe two or three) and a steak.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nice work Sancho and Kiwi, good to see someone posting solutions rather than just whinging.
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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sputnick60
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danielsan
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Joined: September 18, 2008
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Location: Carson City, NV
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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It is nice work.
I'll also defend whinging.  We do want these to be repaired at the factory and not in our garages so in this case whinging actually serves a purpose.
While I am still pursuing an attempt to get these changed at the factory I do have a suggestion for the repair minded. A possible way to eliminate the squint would be to:
1. Loosely assemble the blade and install but do no install overrider or overrider bolt.
2. Stretch until squint is eliminated.
3. Tighten all bolts
4. Now you will find that the overrider hole no longer lines up so widen that hole until you can install the overrider.
5. Drill a hole in the bracket to match.
6. Install an appropriately sized grommet in the blade to eliminate bolt rattle
6. Whinge
7. Feel happy that you made it work |
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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I realise that I'm hogging the space on this thread a bit, but I post the rest for the benefit of everyone who still has stainless steel bumpers ex Vietnam sitting in boxes waiting to be installed in their Ghias. I drove out to Ngatea to have the brackets made to fit the front bumpers at the corners where they meet the guard/fender. (It's freezing out here!)
The first step is to make a suitable bracket - in this case, in stainless steel 2mm thick. This is a slight modification and a simpler version of the bracket I posted yesterday.
The metal where the bracket has to be welded on had to be cleaned and the captive nut on that plate drilled out first - to allow for a clean weld and to allow for a rivnut to be fitted over it.
The bracket was welded in position only on the one side (the outer end of the bumper blade) to allow for some adjustment to be made before finally welding it in place.
We did a trial fit lining up the angle of the bolt on the original bumper blade with the new.
The bracket can now be finally welded on. I'll report on the rest of the process later.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Continuing where I ended: We double-checked at every step of the process. Once a bracket is welded on, it will be a bit of a mess to take it off or adjust it again.
After the welding had been completed, Phillip cleaned the weld and surrounding surfaces with this stuff, which he describes as very noxious:
After drilling holes to the right size and making sure the plate underneath (the original bracket where we drilled and removed the captive nut) had a hole big enough to receive the rivnut, Phillip inserted the rivnuts.
I've since come home and did a (visual) check to see if the new brackets will solve the problem with the misalignment of the brackets on the blades as manufactured. It sure looks like they will. I'll install tomorrow and report. In the meantime, I have to paint the inners of the bumper blades and wait for the paint to dry.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:40 am Post subject: |
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I fitted the front bumper today. The fit is reasonable, but not quite as good as that of the back bumper.
The gap at the corners is about 2-3 mm, which is too small for my liking. I inserted a small rubber strip to protect the paint while the bumpers settle. I might try to adjust them a little later when I can scrape up the enthusiasm to spend another day fixing someone else's mess.
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:06 am Post subject: |
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I unpacked and checked my Harrington front bumper today and the bolt bracket is on the wrong angle, but probably not as bad as in Sancho's photo above.
Instead of welding a new bracket in, has anyone just tried to bend the bracket to the correct angle, or alternatively just drilled the threaded hole out and used a nut and washer with the bolt at the different angle?
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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djway3474
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Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| If you attempt to bend it you will see distortions in the nice shinny outer surface of the bumper, possibly very bad. |
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semipixel
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Joined: July 22, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
I realise that I'm hogging the space on this thread a bit, but I post the rest for the benefit of everyone who still has stainless steel bumpers ex Vietnam sitting in boxes waiting to be installed in their Ghias. I drove out to Ngatea to have the brackets made to fit the front bumpers at the corners where they meet the guard/fender. (It's freezing out here!)
The first step is to make a suitable bracket - in this case, in stainless steel 2mm thick. This is a slight modification and a simpler version of the bracket I posted yesterday.
The metal where the bracket has to be welded on had to be cleaned and the captive nut on that plate drilled out first - to allow for a clean weld and to allow for a rivnut to be fitted over it.
The bracket was welded in position only on the one side (the outer end of the bumper blade) to allow for some adjustment to be made before finally welding it in place.
We did a trial fit lining up the angle of the bolt on the original bumper blade with the new.
The bracket can now be finally welded on. I'll report on the rest of the process later. |
Great fix, I'm going to steal that one for sure.
Would you (or anyone), have the measurements for where the hole is on the body for those mount points? I have a 74 which doesn't have the holes already. I rather get them in the right place then just putting them where they end up when I do it. |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| djway3474 wrote: |
| If you attempt to bend it you will see distortions in the nice shinny outer surface of the bumper, possibly very bad. |
Fair enough, what grade stainless steel and mig wire did the welder use Kiwi - 308 or 316?
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| djway3474 wrote: |
| If you attempt to bend it you will see distortions in the nice shinny outer surface of the bumper, possibly very bad. |
Fair enough, what grade stainless steel and mig wire did the welder use Kiwi - 308 or 316? |
I'll ask him and let you know. (To my eye it was just stainless steel and welding wire, alas.)
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| djway3474 wrote: |
| If you attempt to bend it you will see distortions in the nice shinny outer surface of the bumper, possibly very bad. |
Fair enough, what grade stainless steel and mig wire did the welder use Kiwi - 308 or 316? |
I'll ask him and let you know. (To my eye it was just stainless steel and welding wire, alas.) |
It was 316 stainless steel and it was TIG welded (not MIG) with 316 wire. I hope that helps.
The fitting was still difficult with the new bracket, so talk to me via PM before you start. Or keep this in mind: I didn't have the car and the blade in the same place and what we did was to try to match the angle on the old blade with the bracket we made tacked in place on the new blade. Then we did the final weld, and back at the car I had to try to fit the new bumper. It wasn't easy.
So I would suggest trial fitting the blade on the car until you are satisfied with the bracket before you do the final welding.
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
It was 316 stainless steel and it was TIG welded (not MIG) with 316 wire. I hope that helps.
The fitting was still difficult with the new bracket, so talk to me via PM before you start. Or keep this in mind: I didn't have the car and the blade in the same place and what we did was to try to match the angle on the old blade with the bracket we made tacked in place on the new blade. Then we did the final weld, and back at the car I had to try to fit the new bumper. It wasn't easy.
So I would suggest trial fitting the blade on the car until you are satisfied with the bracket before you do the final welding. |
Thanks Kiwi, this is helpful. Today I assembled my Harrington euro bumpers to check them out and although I didn't trial fit them in the car, I made a few observations:
- The threaded brackets in the over riders seem to be good, but the bolts provided are not long enough to fit the spacer mounting plate inside the bumper.
- The over riders are all a bit different front each other and are not interchangeable diagonally front to back like the original ones. I had to test fit each one to see which one fit best in each position.
- Once I worked out which over rider went where, the fit was ok. They will need to be adjusted a little to make them sit square on the blade, but I think I will be able to do this by just moving them when I bolt them on rather than having to grind them. There are some small gaps between the blade and the overrider and rubber, but hopefully these will improve when I fit the spacer mounting plates.
- The spring washers provided are too big and there are no flat washers and not enough nuts so I will need to buy more stainless fasteners (minor issue).
- The width of the bumpers seemed to be ok against the original ones and the location of the mounting bolts looks ok (but you can't tell for sure until you try to fit them), but the angle of the mounting plates on the end of the front bumpers is wrong as others have noted.
Overall despite the issues I think these will work out ok, but they are obviously repro quality when you look close and will never match a rechromed set of original bumpers. I bought these a couple of years ago when the AUD/USD exchange rate was a lot better than it is currently but I probably would not pay what they would cost me now.
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Smithr
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Location: East coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: Other supplier of ghia bumpers |
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| I am starting my 71 ghia coupe reassembly soon. With the the issues on the bumpers from PTT etc, I am wondering if anyone has experience with the supplier in Atlanta, called Mr Fiat? They are on eBay and their own website..descriptions seems very similar to Harrington and PTT.any help or advice appreciated! |
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2878
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Other supplier of ghia bumpers |
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| Smithr wrote: |
| I am starting my 71 ghia coupe reassembly soon. With the the issues on the bumpers from PTT etc, I am wondering if anyone has experience with the supplier in Atlanta, called Mr Fiat? They are on eBay and their own website..descriptions seems very similar to Harrington and PTT.any help or advice appreciated! |
Ask them to post a photo of the corner brackets on the front bumper blades before you commit to the purchase. Then check the alignment of those brackerts against that on your original bumper blades, or if you don't have them any more, you could perhaps check against the position of the original bracket in the photos I posted earlier.
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VeloMikey
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Fiat and Cip1 sell the Vietnamese bumpers. Harrington and Ptt are about the same. Better to go direct for a cheaper price. Cip1 stocks them and has free shipping so it might be quicker.
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AgriChic
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Location: Napa, California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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kiwighia68 and sancho seem to offer up some creative work arounds related to the front bumper issue. This note is to chime in that Harrington and I have continued to go back and forth for over a month since I last posted (my email thread count is 24). Harrington constantly claimed someone was "on vacation" or on a "business trip" only to in the end wasted quite a bit of my time, not refunded my money, nor offered any solutions to the issue of the angle being completely incorrect on the front bumper mounting bracket and say, "checked the original bumper- side parts show the same measurements" - as the reproduction bumper I have in my possession.
I consider myself a detail oriented, business woman, who can fix a windmill on a ranch and who is generally mechanically minded. I too would echo someone else's comment DO NOT PURCHASE REPRODUCTION BUMPERS from Harrington or anyone else at the cost they currently are $1000+...with the issues continually described in this thread they aren't worth $100
Unfortunately the previous owner of my car got rid of all originals in the early 1990s. I had limited other alternatives.
And after 6 months of work....my 1967 completely restored Ghia will not be attending a car show tomorrow because I refuse to take it without the bumper. My body guys are pulling their hair out. I imagine preparing to completely walk from this project. If there are additional notes about best practices to make the modifications to the front bumper please PM me, one of you in a portion of the thread said there were other components to making this all work, and I'd really like to give the body guys some hope that there's a light at the end of the tunnel...even if that light is actually the arc of fire welding torch in hand... |
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jpjohns
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| AgriChic wrote: |
kiwighia68 and sancho seem to offer up some creative work arounds related to the front bumper issue. This note is to chime in that Harrington and I have continued to go back and forth for over a month since I last posted (my email thread count is 24). Harrington constantly claimed someone was "on vacation" or on a "business trip" only to in the end wasted quite a bit of my time, not refunded my money, nor offered any solutions to the issue of the angle being completely incorrect on the front bumper mounting bracket and say, "checked the original bumper- side parts show the same measurements" - as the reproduction bumper I have in my possession.
I consider myself a detail oriented, business woman, who can fix a windmill on a ranch and who is generally mechanically minded. I too would echo someone else's comment DO NOT PURCHASE REPRODUCTION BUMPERS from Harrington or anyone else at the cost they currently are $1000+...with the issues continually described in this thread they aren't worth $100
Unfortunately the previous owner of my car got rid of all originals in the early 1990s. I had limited other alternatives.
And after 6 months of work....my 1967 completely restored Ghia will not be attending a car show tomorrow because I refuse to take it without the bumper. My body guys are pulling their hair out. I imagine preparing to completely walk from this project. If there are additional notes about best practices to make the modifications to the front bumper please PM me, one of you in a portion of the thread said there were other components to making this all work, and I'd really like to give the body guys some hope that there's a light at the end of the tunnel...even if that light is actually the arc of fire welding torch in hand... |
I'm in your boat. My PO took off the bumper parts, all except for the rear main section. I have no overriders, tube or covers. I'm hoping all this can be sorted out by the time I will need bumpers in a couple years.
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