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Transmission cooler
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visibleink
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

So just a couple weeks after installing my kit this happened:

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Towed it to the shop that did the install and they called and said they think thermostat failed and "blew the hose".

So I called German Transaxle and talked to Ken - great guy and seems to really know his shit. He says they've shipped out 1000s of kits and never had a problem. I also asked if they failed open.....yes they do. He's pretty sure the shop didn't get the clamps on tight enough. He said to have the shop call and they would sent out another thermostat.

So my questions are this:

-The shop doesn't think the thermostat is necessary (and I'm disagreeing) Ken at GT said it could take 10 mins to warm up in cold weather. Any strong opinions on if it's necessary?

-What should happen in this situation? I supplied the part and it sure looks like they just didn't get those clamps tightened down enough

-What are the best clamps to use - earlier in this thread some were mentioned but I didn't see a link or description of which ones to use.

Kudos to German Transaxle - they seem like great folks.
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<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth
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ovsa
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Wow, sorry to hear that happened.

This is anti-freeze and not transmission oil?

Not sure why a failed thermostat would blow the line off as there is a pressure relief built into the coolant reservoir.

Was it the clamp where they spliced the coolant lines together after removing the stock cooler.? I would say shop probably forgot to tighten it.

After reading previous post about bad hose (gear-type) clamps i switched mine out to fuel injector line clamps, Suppose to be alot better and don't bite into the rubber hose. I only did that to the 3/8" transmission cooler lines (x4).

Good luck.
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DenverB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

It's the clamps. We been running into the same issues and I've had that same problem happened three times. Last one was Saturday.

Sorry it took so long for me to get this posted, but after a lot of failure on our end or mechanic Mark at Wolfsburg auto works thanks these are the best clamps to be using:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Bad ones closeup:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


We have been installing the exact same kit from German transaxle, so there is definitely something here that they are missing if we are having this exact same issue across the country
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
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DenverB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

In case it's not clear the good clamps are from Napa and they are part number 705–1227

Should note that the people at German transaxle are awesome and they do great work, I think that there's something here that we're just now starting to discover though.
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)

www.RockyMountainCampervans.com
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DenverB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Part of the problem with those other clamps was that they were pinching the hose and actually destroying it. I know in one case the clamp actually cut into the hose and caused it to fail.
_________________
-------
'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)

www.RockyMountainCampervans.com
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jjvincent
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

McMaster-Carr is your friend:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-hose-clamps/=12o383x
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ovsa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

I agree.

I changed mine over to fuel injector hose clamps after reading your last post.

Looks very similar to the ones you show.
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ovsa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Hello Denver B.

Interested on your opinion on this when you have a minute as you seem to have experience in this:

Finally took the 96 EVC for a long weekend camping trip in the B.C. Rockies.

First trip I've taken since i bought it and it some modifications to it. One of them being a AFT cooler and temp. gauge.

In retrospect i should have installed the gauge first and ran it around with the stock ATF cooler to see what kind of temperatures i was running. Then i would be able to see if the aftermarket cooler was an improvement or just a waste of cash. Most people say they work good so i'll go with that.

Anyway i wanted to post some readings to see if its similar to other people.

It has been a hot week here , around 80- 85 deg. f. In stop n go city traffic my gauge was running at about 200-210 ( seems pretty high) Got out to the highway and it ran steady at 170-180 deg.. Some of the long uphill summits brought me back up to 210 deg. Nice flat evening driving got me down as low as 150.

I was surprised at the range it went through and the effect of the ambient air temp. Yesterday was 87 deg and it ran a bit higher at 180-190.

This is the five cylinder-2.5 liter so it has to work pretty hard climbing those hills.

i also noticed it is kinda slow to downshift, but i guess that is for another day.

Should mention the engine ran nice and cool most of the time , about 1/3 way up the gauge ( no temp. markings on that one).

thanks for any input.
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visibleink
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

DenverB wrote:
In case it's not clear the good clamps are from Napa and they are part number 705–1227

Should note that the people at German transaxle are awesome and they do great work, I think that there's something here that we're just now starting to discover though.


Thanks so much - getting those clamps from my local NAPA!
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<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth
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visibleink
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Thanks again to Denver B on those hose clamps - really appreciate that tip.

I'm back to running the thermal bypass - I just hope there's no further problems with it.
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<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth
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Jonwid
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Any thoughts on this type of cooler with a fan? Would it be adaptable? Where could you put it besides in front of the condenser/radiator? Is there a temp sensor relay that would be adaptable? Or maybe just make a remote rocker switch on the dash? (Are there spare switch blanks available?)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mio-mmoc-f

Summit also carries the Sonnax cooler adapter ports.
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boostin20v
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: transmission cooler Reply with quote

boostin20v wrote:
I just installed the Pop Top Heaven kit. The SONAX adapters work well, the rear one towards the rear of the vehicle is a massive pain to get in. The cooler core they provided is nice and large....I think the largest possible in the space behind the gill in front of the condenser.

And a shout out to the Pop Top Heaven folks, I contacted them to ask about their shipping time frame...and they pulled some strings for me on their end and made sure to get me the parts in time for my scheduled installation. That was a huge help for me.


I bought a ScanGauge recently and while I don't have before temps for comparison I feel pretty good about what I'm seeing with the kit sold by Pop Top Heaven. Days with temps in 85-90*F I've seen IAT at ~90-95 and trans temp ~147-154*F with the highest IAT of 112*F and 161*F trans temp with a 98*F ambient temp.
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visibleink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

My transmission is running around 200 with the cooler. Love to hear what other folks' temps are and what is the temp that I should pull over and let the thing cool down.
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<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth
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Itsamoto
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

I'm using a scangauge as well to monitor the temps - but there's something weird with what I'm seeing. For weeks the Transmision temp (TFT) signal was gone -- and then it came back. On my other van the TFT signal was never flakey like this. I prefer to run the scangauge in Celcius units - and the switching of back and forth might be a part of the problem as the TFT only reports back in F.

This is on a 2002 GLS (no aftermarket cooler):

For weeks the TFT signal was gone -- and then it came back and I was running at 161-165F consistently and the ambient was about 68-74F. It seemed oddly cool running as the water temps were fairly normal. A lot of this was driving was actually with an empty passenger area (running no seats/cargo style) .

Then the other day with the van fully loaded up with seats and people and bikes -- a huge jump in trans temps as we hit the highway. Running all the way up to 215F -- in complete lockstep with the water temp. Ambient was 77-86F.

The water temperature and transmission temp being equalized makes sense - as they share a heat exchanger. The engine coolant first brings the transmission fluid up to operating temp, and then it should be keeping the temperature steady (at whatever the engine temp is). So perhaps lowering the overall temperature engine coolant is also going to be a good thing for the transmission? Stock thermostat is an 80C model - so perhaps moving to a 70C model will help by cooling water temps just that much sooner?
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jjvincent
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

A cooler thermostat won't make the water temp cooler. If it opens at 70 and then the water temp it running at 90, it's open all of the way. The whole system will equalize at a certain temp. That extra 10 C will not do much in the end.

The reason for the heat exchanger on the engine and transmission (the EV has 2) is because of a packaging issue. It's easier to make a radiator thicker and add in heat exchangers just to take care of the heat load. Most manufacturers will rate the cooling system to around 140 degrees F ambient under normal driving conditions.
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stevefromcanmore
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I have a 1993 Eurovan and am in need of a transmission cooler. The tread has been helpful and I have found quite a few products that work on the eurovan but many of them seem to only start at 1995. Is this a typo or was something changed between 1993 and 1995?

More specifically, I am hoping to order the poptop heaven one since they can economicaly ship to Canada - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission-Cooler-Kit-Sp...SwpDdVZliU

Does anyone know if this will work in a 1993?

Thanks!
Steve
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ovsa
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

cant see it being a problem.

i would check to see if both models use the same stock transmission cooler.

that is were the difference would be, the adapters you will receive have to fit the existing banjo bolts in you stock cooler.

the cooler itself will fit just about anywhere.

good luck.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Itsamoto wrote:
I'm using a scangauge as well to monitor the temps - but there's something weird with what I'm seeing. For weeks the Transmision temp (TFT) signal was gone -- and then it came back. On my other van the TFT signal was never flakey like this.


I've had it be pretty flakey too in my '01. I programmed the two sensors per the ScanGauge website and at times the trans temp (TFT) will appear to freeze or not display at all. I have been able to get the reading back by flipping through the menus several times, but odd indeed.
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ovsa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

best way to monitor transmission temperatures:

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IMHO.

no second guessing the electronics.
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Itsamoto
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission cooler Reply with quote

Ok -- I'm giving up on monitoring trans temp via the scan gauge and will do the direct monitoring with a dedicated gauge and sender. Once I see some more reliable temperature reports - I will throw on a tru-cool transmission cooler.

A couple of questions:

I have a metric thread temp sender to use on the transmission port (as shown by KBATTPO on the vwvortex forum) -- but the probe length is only 10mm. Will that work or is that too short?

With the cooler install, is the SONNAX adapter's a must have? Can another suitable thread hose adapter be used instead?
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