| Author |
Message |
borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
 |
|
dan, I'm working on the idle jet o-rings.
be back this evening
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
i spoke with two zenith experts and they both said "no o-rings" on idle jets.
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Yeah, kind of figured it out. I guess the only o rings in the Zenith go on the Pump Jets.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mr_bill
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: City of Orange, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Zenith carb installed on the 1776 engine in my Class 11"x" Bug
just made this support / brace for the carb...(this is what you do with.......to much time on your hands).
_________________
see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sandhopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norwalk Ca
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
I have a problem with mine . The squriter on the left is N Op right side great
Where do I start , the top part is ok I jet and sqr is clear . Can this be fix on the car or do I have to take the carb off and start all over with soaking ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mr_bill
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: City of Orange, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Question......PILOT JET & IDLE JET, same thing ?? WHAT size IDLE JET do you have ??..........THANKS..( my mixture screws are only 1/2 - 3/4 turns out ???????
_________________
see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sovereignsamba
Banned
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 2845
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| XxonValdez wrote: |
Removed my crossbar, took it a step further and ground it down, then plugged the vent holes with JB weld and ground/sanded smooth. Then Tapped the plug above the accel pump with 1/4 NPT and place a barb fitting in to vent into the airfilter. The vent hole on the other side only vents the choke/cold start circuit which I don't use (have a block off plate on it anyway), cant wait ti see how it does...
next is figure out how to make an air filter assembly to make this work  ...got these out of the classifieds, came off an old porsche racing motor.
|
This is very cool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Something many don't realize about the Zenith carb is that the crossbar in the throat is the float bowl vent. It has a pipe thread in it, so a fitting can be screwed in and a vent hose added. It makes for excellent offroad float bowl venting.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5410
Location: Holland, MI
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
| dustymojave wrote: |
| Something many don't realize about the Zenith carb is that the crossbar in the throat is the float bowl vent. It has a pipe thread in it, so a fitting can be screwed in and a vent hose added. It makes for excellent offroad float bowl venting. |
Originally was an off road carb. Was used in several military vehicles. A vent was screwed into the top to keep fuel from sloshing. Probably the most famous application was the 36 NDIX used in the Pinzgauer. The 36 with 28mm vents fed a 2.5 liter four banger. I road in a Pinzgauer in the Upper Pininsula of Michigan.not the fastest vehicle around, but man alive...the hills that thing could climb!!! Never missed a beat, ran smooth as butter. You would swear it was fuel injected. 
Link
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Not sure I agree that it was originally used in offroad vehicles.
Pinzgauer...
| Quote: |
| The vehicle was originally developed in the late 1960s and manufactured by Steyr-Daimler-Puch[2][3] of Graz, Austria |
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-Terrain_Vehicle
Porsche used the Zenith NDIX carbs in the 356 series and Spyders in the 1950s, often as dual carbs, long before the Pinzgauer was invented. Good float bowl venting without spillage into the throat is important also for sports cars that go around corners at high Gs.
I consider the Zenith carb to be one that is badly dissed by many modern VW guys. For some reason they just don't get the respect that a Weber receives.
True...I myself won a Championship with my buggy and the engine I built using a 'dare to be different' Weber 40DCNF, more crisp than my partner's otherwise nearly identical engine also built by me using a Zenith set up by then Zenith master Tom Coy of Speed Unlimited. Coy also set up the Zenith for Malcolm Smith's win-everything Scott McKenzie Prepped Funco. He was the Go-To guy for Zenith carbs that nearly everybody racing VWs offroad used in their race car (except limited class racers), and most of their pre-runners and a great many other play cars too.
I found the Zenith as set up by Coy tended to be too fat on accel, as was typical of most all of the offroad racers running Zeniths. I leaned it out in accel, and it then ran very nearly as crisp as my Weber carbed motor.
You could always tell a Zenith carbed offroad race car by watching it through a rough section. Each point of acceleration was marked by a puff of black smoke out the upward pointed TriMil (no mufflers or spark arrestors back in the 70s).
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.
Last edited by dustymojave on Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5410
Location: Holland, MI
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Pinzgauer was just the most popular off road use of the NDIX. The 38 NDIX was used on old school flat head engines well before the 32 NDIX replaced the dual Solex single barrels on the Porsche 356. 
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5410
Location: Holland, MI
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
By the way... if anyone else wants to encourage EMPI to reintroduce the NDIX line of carbs, shoot off a message. I have been poking them for a few years now. I suggested the 32 and 36. But the 38 could be an option for larger engines. I keep hoping they would bring them back. I'm sure they could make a great clone judging by what they have done with the IDF and IDA carbs. 
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| Pinzgauer was just the most popular FACTORY equipped off road use of the NDIX. The 38 NDIX was used on old school flat head engines well before the 32 NDIX replaced the dual Solex single barrels on the Porsche 356. |
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
On reflection, I had the thought that perhaps the Zenith never got the respect of a Weber because they are cast in Zinc, rather than aluminum, like the Weber.
So with that thought in mind, maybe it would be good for repro EMPI-Zeniths to be cast in aluminum?
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mr_bill
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: City of Orange, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
"extended bowl-vent" on my ZENITH 32NDIX
_________________
see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5410
Location: Holland, MI
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
| dustymojave wrote: |
On reflection, I had the thought that perhaps the Zenith never got the respect of a Weber because they are cast in Zinc, rather than aluminum, like the Weber.
So with that thought in mind, maybe it would be good for repro EMPI-Zeniths to be cast in aluminum? |
Aluminum would be fine as long as they do something about the throttle shaft wear issue...proper bearings. The original zeniths had iron throttle bodies and what appeared to be hard chromed brass throttle shafts. Maybe not all were that way, but the 36 I had my hands in last year definetly had a chrome plating in the throttle shaft. Maybe they could use a needle bearing in the reproductions...similar to many performance Weber carbs. Maybe they could also offer a vacuum port for vacuum advance...not sure the NDIX ever came with that in any configuration.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Ok so going to try the Zeniths as Duals on my 1679cc VW engine. I have several Zenith NDIX 32 carbs some P010 and some from the Porsche's so first I will try the Porsche bases that don't have the crossover path between barrels on the base and I want to run them setup without chokes just like I had them on the 356's. But I am not sure which top's to use. I have some with this vent tube on them and another set that does not. Does anyone know it's function and if it is needed or not.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Ok found what I was looking for buried in this PDF: http://lotsoc.com/dkw/Technical/Carb-Manuals/DKW%20Special%20Carburetor%20Publication.pdf
Page 35, the brass vented tube is called a "Capacity Tube". It fills with gas that empties when the choke is set to cold start providing a extremely rich mixture at first. I never knew this about these Zeniths. It explains why the single zenith configuration really sooted up my engine as I was trying to start it several times in a row. Better to start cranking then adjust the choke while continuing to crank till she starts.
So I won't need them for the Porsche (No choke) rather (No enrichment) configuration of these Zenith 32's.
Video of it running is posted on my thread Here.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stauffenberg
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2008
Posts: 342
Location: Denver
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
Recently I scored a nice Zenith setup at a show and have disassembled it and its soaking in some carb cleaner. Now for setting it for my altitude (5000 feet) does anyone have any suggestions? This is on a single port 1600. I currently have...
Main 115
Air correction 180
Pilot/Idle 60
I think the main is fine but the other two is what i'm thinking need changed. Any suggestions welcome!
For the choke, do I just need to run a cable somewhere? With how cold it gets here I figure I should leave it?
Currently I have a 009 dizzy, which I know isnt the best, so what should I look at getting? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Carb |
|
|
If that Zenith has the choke arm on the kind of round choke housing on the side facing you as you stand behind the car, then just a cable will give you a functioning choke.
Unlike most old school American cars with manual chokes where the "Choke" is a butterfly in the top of the carb throat to choke down how much air can pass in order to achieve a richer air/fuel ratio needed for a cold start engine, the choke on the Zenith works by adding fuel into the air stream to get the richer mixture.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
