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Brent
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Once the 163/86b (?) comes in, the bottom end should be ready to go together on the 2270.
Because I'll need the 2.0 914 plug angle for the DCNF linkage to work,
Those nice 2.0 heads I was planning on using on the 2270 will have to go on the 2056.
Hoping that it won't be a 'waste' of them to use them on the 2056.
What with the heat exchangers and 'mere' 494 cam..

The cylinders on the 2056 will have to be chopped down to get the deck right using the 2.0 914 heads,
And Bob had a stroke,
So it's kind of scary having him chop them down now.
His edge ain't as keen as it once was, dig?
Just China AA, but still...

Anyways,
That means I'm going to take one or three sets of these head cores and do one up with big valves.
Still 2270/96 bore, so maybe 44x36? 44x38?
The 96 cylinder might shroud the flow enough to diminishing returns vs. 42x36.
Heavier valves also float easier..

Was going to try and copy Jake's 'Torquer' and use a 163/86b and 42x36,
But,
having a huge exhaust makes me want to go big.
Especially with revs.
Maybe get a 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 step header? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

MS was willing to come by when the 2270 goes together.
Can't wait!
He was saying how he's all about retarding the cam a few degrees to make more power upstairs.
With a set of those adjustable straight-cuts different settings are infinite.
My mind has been wanting that 2270 to spin hard!

Now I'm sitting on the fence with cutting for dual springs and a Web 494..
I think I'm gonna do it.
Gene Berg is whispering in my ear from the grave..!

Anyhow,
Bla bla bla..
If any one out there took the time to read this, (and can even understand it) and has anything to add, please chime in...!

WWND ... What Would Nate Do?? Very Happy


I have a 163/86b in my stash for my future project. I'm kind of leaning towards a 86b/86c though. Want to keep the 96 bore... yeah, WWND?
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Hhmmmm....
Here's 48x41 valves to in a 98 bore.. Think Think

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953&page=94

Makes 44x38 in a 96 bore seem more reasonable, eh?
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Brent
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Hhmmmm....
Here's 48x41 valves to in a 98 bore.. Think Think

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953&page=94

Makes 44x38 in a 96 bore seem more reasonable, eh?


Nice. But going from 96 to 98 seems like a huge increase in cost. 98mm Nickies are $3500!

I wonder why people always increase intake and exhaust to 44x38. Why not 46x38? I seem to remember a post somewhere about exhaust valve sizing and what 36mm exhaust valves could handle.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Brent wrote:


I wonder why people always increase intake and exhaust to 44x38. Why not 46x38? I seem to remember a post somewhere about exhaust valve sizing and what 36mm exhaust valves could handle.


48x38 was always the traditional big valve set-up back in the day;
FAT and MS and EMW..
That was with 103s, tho.
Wally's set-up uses huge valves with only 98s.
Makes me wonder about the whole "cylinder wall shrouding theory"... Think

Anyhow,
A massive cleanup effort of Clatter World Headquarters has been started.

The Mother of All Mock-Ups has begun..!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Clatter
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Inspiration Comes in Many Forms Reply with quote

It's Friday night, And I'm feelin' alright!

Inspiration takes many forms.

This right here - have to stare at it sometimes,
Just to remind myself what that rusting hulk in my backyard really is.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The colors are right and everything..
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Anyhow,
-Almost five hours-

Sketch-ball Flip-it-over, take-it-off-the-cart, roll-it-forward, solo style:
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Forgot about these carts of parts!
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I _knew_ I cut that bus up for something..! Idea
Open-ended lug nuts let me fit my wheels prior to spacers/trimming, etc. that always seems to go with P-car wheels..
Also verified my torsions fit!
The camber adjuster bolts clear the sub! Lucked out.. Very Happy
(Yes, Alice, I know my backing plate over there is clocked wrong. This is just a mock-up)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



No, Trudy, there is no chance these will fit under the fenderwells.. Fun to stare at and drink!
They clear the snubber plate and adjustment bolts, tho, barely..
And that's kind of cool, huh? Right?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Stab the trans, down off of the stands.. Cool
Set the rear to drag ass a bit to check clearances.
(And for inspiration - how cool would it be if it set like that.. Cool )
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Here's the kind of things mock-up uncovers:

Those brake line brackets seem too close together..
IRS cars have them further in towards the center of the car, huh?
Also, that spring-plate-to-trailing-arm bolt is going to foul the sub-frame at full compression.. Needs a notch.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Hope I can get a fitting to clear those tie rods... Think Think
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Anyhow,
With any luck I'll get another day, and maybe even some help! Shocked
Pray Pray Pray

Feeling Inspired! Dancing Dancing
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: A Whole Day! With Help! Reply with quote

Mom let me have a whole day!
Like 8-10 or so hours... Shocked

Here's the factory fuel outlets - for reference.
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Anyhow, first thing this morning:
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Before:
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After:
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My new friend Mike came over.
Mom can't find it in her heart to stop us,
What with TWO of us flailing away,
And one being a guy who it's not even his car...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This guy is an ANIMAL!
We got the body on the pan,
The car in the air,
And the holes moved over so all the bolts started.
Every pan-to-body bolt went in...

After that, all of the body panels went on.
The beam and wheels and all came off to make room for the clip.

I didn't take pics, what with being busy (and stoked).

Once we got the panels on, with the clip, things were a bit odd.
It finally came to me; the slab is all crooked.
(The concrete slab the car sits on)
When the car sits directly on solid stands, on a crooked slab, the car ends up crooked.
So I decided to put the car back on it's wheels.
The car's suspension will soak up/level out any concrete imperfections.
That way we can get everything aligned right.

We had to get out the angle protractor and set the rear spring plates equal,
(PITA), and re-hang the beam, wheels, clip, etc.
Mike didn't even flinch, and did it just like that..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So after getting the suspension re-hung,
And the body panels re-hung,
The car sat on the wheels, on the slab, on the final pan and suspension.
Everything made sense... The gaps acted like they were supposed to.
At that point we were tired, and it was late.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Reminds me of that 'Winter's Tale' Fastback with the rear wheels all poking out like that.. Laughing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




So, it was a flail - Two mock ups, really- with the re-work from my mental slowness; Mike works too fast for my brain.
One on stands, one on the wheels.
Still, tho, ready to go..
If I can get the panels to line up, that clip is getting tacked on!

After some rest, and staring/scratching/adjusting/measuring, seems that we might just be able to weld that mudder fusking clip down fo reals!!!
Pray Pray Pray Pray

Big thanks to Mike for BUSTING HIS ASS all day long.

Mike - I owe you one! Wink
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eyetzr Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Looks great. I think you could kidnap Mike for a couple of days and you would be finished this build.
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Nate M.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Now that's a mock-up!! Looking good Clatter!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: A Whole Day! With Help! Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Mom let me have a whole day!

So after getting the suspension re-hung,
And the body panels re-hung,
The car sat on the wheels, on the slab, on the final pan and suspension.
Everything made sense... The gaps acted like they were supposed to.
At that point we were tired, and it was late.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Reminds me of that 'Winter's Tale' Fastback with the rear wheels all poking out like that.. Laughing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Big thanks to Mike for BUSTING HIS ASS all day long.


Now THAT is the mock up we've ALL been waiting to see. I love that rear shot, as it shows how far you've come with it. Cool Looks like you're going to need Mike to come over a few more times, as he'll help you bust that job out. Very Happy
It won't be long now before the front clip is in place, and welded up. Twisted Evil Great job guys. Applause
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

oooooh nice. page '67 is coming up too - so there is a little motivation
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Oh, I hope page 67 breaks the magic juju that lingers...

This car is cursed!

The last few days I have been trying to figure out why the clip won't fit!!!
Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Can only do so much off/on/off/on with that front clip before I snap!!
:snipersmile: :2gunfire: :fist: Evil or Very Mad Boo hoo! :2gunfire: Pray

Check out Mike's convertible Falcon.. It's a stick!

This is my "life"..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The front lower mounts of the clip won't go on the Left side only.
Right side 'fits' (kinda)..
Clip won't go back...? Question Question
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Left side won't move rearward to close this gap!?!?
WTF?
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Checking with my 'trammel bar' to see if the front bulkhead is crooked.
(using the floor-pan I welded on - it's suspect)
Shock tower mount eye to rear bulkhead (Something I never messed with) looks OK.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rear bulkhead to front firewall face is a bit off from L to R..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Maybe have to push the front firewall around a bit.
The whole thing must have gotten made crooked somewhere along the line..?

It's still not making any sense..
Sucks.

Buy rusty not wrecked!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: World's Longest Build Thread Reply with quote

The World's Longest Build Thread Continues..

I still haven't been banned from here for wasting space with this!

So here you go.. A complicated story of a very crooked car...
Might as well skip this, it will take too long to even read. Razz


"Danger seldom approaches without exciting a nerve ending somewhere"
-Ian Fleming's James Bond

The front of the pan seems like it's bending down?
This gap opens up as it runs forward to the firewall.
I was just snugging it down and bringing it together.
Measuring the tunnel and pan shows that it's NOT 'curving down'.
The front of the body is 'curving up'???
Hhhmmm....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Something is just wrong.
I don't know what.
Time to strip it all down and swap pans again to see.
(Thanks again, Mike)
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Here it sits on the OG pan while I think and drink.
Problem goes away entirely when I put it back on the roller pan.
WTF?
(And where do these kids get off thinking they can just fix things like a broken Nerf gun, anyways?)
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Then it came to me!
Eureka!
The edges of the pan, outboard where the heater channels attach, are too high!
It's folded upward at the edges like a taco.
Since the final pan was sitting here as a roller, I just jumped up and down on it,
And it seemed to come right into line.
I threw the body back on the final pan, (thanks again Mike),
and no more 'curving'!!
Plus,
The seat track issue went away!
Things are making sense again!!
WhooHoo!!! Dancing Dancing Dancing

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


No more interference!
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So,
Over the next few days after work,
I test-fitted the front clip a couple dozen umpteen times.

Finally just decided to open up this flange a bit to allow the clip to come back.
The firewall is a smidge too far forward,
But I'm at a loss as to how to bring it back.
So,
Fuggit.
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Now it comes back into place.
POS!
See how bent up everything gets, with all of these tweaks and test-fits?
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Started sheet-metal-screwing things into place last night after work;
The easy side came right in like it should.
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The hard side did, too! Shocked
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Check out how mangled everything gets from 500 on/off test-fit sessions..
Embarassed Embarassed
(Actually it's only like 150 - I exaggerate..)


Easy side top corner sections fell right into place...
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Even the hard side came into line..
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Gaps all around looking good...
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Can't believe it.. Can't believe it...
Set me back a year..!
Could it be possible that I will never, ever, have to pick that front clip up and move it again???
Impossible....
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Notch
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Well that is so awesome. So glad you have been willing to keep moving forward on this project. Many lesser men would have quit.
YOU ARE DA MAN!!!!

Doug
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

I see a LOT of welding in the coming weeks. . . Good Job!!
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Thanks for following along, guys.
Props really help!

Trynna get to page '67..

Today was Saturday,
And Mom worked,
But I was kinda fried, what after last night and all...

Did a few things:
First of all,
I tacked the seat tracks into place.
That felt good! Cool
Didn't get a pic. Too stoked.
That seat track issue had me in a funk!

Then,
That cut in the middle of the "B" pillar didn't make sense.
Hard side door opening was too small. Door didn't fit; Gap wrong.
Made a bunch of measured 6-inch increments along the rocker,
And measured with the trammel bar..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In order to open the gap like it needs,
A hoist comes in handy.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

All of those clamps and blocks were used to align it all.
Scabbed in a bunch of little strips to fill the cut.
Too windy to finish-weld,
But I got the number there, dig?
And it didn't mess up my gaps at the front clip! Cool

Killed some time - test-fit fuel tank and spare tire bowl.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also dug out some spare motor parts.
Going to build up a mock-up motor for tin fits using 914 2.0 heads.
Need to work-up the 411/412 heaters and header..

All in all, not the best day, but got a few things done.

Can only mess with that front clip so much at a time..
For some reason.. Rolling Eyes

Progress is progress!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Nate M. wrote:
I see a LOT of welding in the coming weeks. . . Good Job!!


Agreed. I too see lots of welding in the coming weeks. Great job Steve. Way to stick to it, and find the problems and FIX them. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Cool one! A future Hot VW Magazine front cover Type 3! Keep us posted!
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Thanks for all the props, guys.
It really means a lot!

Back in the old days, guys used to Go It Alone..

So,
I did a few things..
Last weekend Mike helped me assemble a mock-up motor.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Still need to trim tins,
Figure out the dipstick tube,
Test-fit exhaust.

And that's about it! Cool


Welding the front clip on started. (WhooHoo!!! Dancing )
Damn wind kept shutting me down.
See boogery blobs next to calm-air shiny/flat welds..
I said something about this before, huh? Eh?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Early this AM, Mom gave me half a day before the wind came up..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Makin' shit fit tight!
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Hoping next week is going to be massive..
Mom and kids gone all week.
Mike has promised to help me.

If all goes according to plan,
OMG,
We could be seeing things actually DONE! Shocked

Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

That clip really ties the car together, does it not?

Nice work, can't wait to see the forthcoming updates!

You should re-powdercoat those diagonal arms. Black would look better. And, you know you can get new rubber OEM bushings for them. Urethane, meh...

Not to bag on your sweet build though.

Wish I could be there for the week of progress.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread Reply with quote

Damn Steve, You have been a busy bee for sure. Way to knock out the mock ups and get that front end sorted out and welded in.

Not sure you did all that with the smoke out there but great job!.
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