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Bostig RG6 and beyond
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mpl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Franagon wrote:
Hey Reck, That all sounds promising! I just had my first start this past Thursday. Started right up! I was not expecting it! I still am trying to figure out how to data log and get all the water in the system (without air). I haven't had the time to spend with it, but I should get some extra days off soon to muddle through the final steps of the process. I am getting excited to drive it and get my garage cleaned out and back in order! I may be just slightly ahead of you, and should be able to answer questions as they come up. None of it is really hard, just some things I have never done before. Good luck moving forward!

Franagon, congrats on on your first start! You and I had the same experience... I was also very (pleasantly) surprised that my Zetec fired up on the first key-turn. (I guess that the time I invested in freeing the injectors paid off!) It also took me a while to fully burp the cooling system.

For what it's worth, what I eventually found most effective with burping the cooling system was jacking up the rear of the van so that the Bostig fill tower at the rear of the van is above the radiator bleed screw at the front of the van. (I used a measuring tape to confirm the heights.) Then I left the radiator bleed screw open at the front, filled up the system, and started 'er up and ran until all of the air was pushed out of the radiator bleed screw and coolant started to dribble out.

You've already got the hard stuff done... This is now the easy (if someone what time-consuming) stuff!
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the reply! I was experimenting with a different 'bong' adaptor last night and have a few ideas for that. For now, I will just get it up on ramps and jack it up more from there if needed. As I said on another thread, I still would like the 'bong' for convenience or roadside issues if they arise, and for not dragging the ramps out, etc. Started it up again last night just to hear it and just to check to see how my battery was doing. I had an issue with the WBX with it draining down after sitting for awhile. Not sure if I am over that yet, but I will shake that out here soon. Thanks again, Fran
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Worked well just on the ramps. As the rear was up on the ramps, the bleeder in the front actually got a little closer to the ground, so it was lower than the fill. I got it mostly free of air, and will probably work on it more tonight.

Off topic question to this group:

My tach is doing some crazy stuff. I have installed the Tach Signal Converter (TSC) as explained by many Bostig veterans, and here is what happens.... Tach registers RPM as shown on the SCT X4 Tuner, right around 1000 RPM at idle. It takes awhile to pick up this reading and then display it on my Vanagon tach (before that it is 0 RPM). When I hit the throttle, it goes to 0 RPM. If I remain back at idle for awhile it returns to the 1000 RPM. Is this a ground or some other wiring interference/issue? Seems as if it was just the TSC wired wrong, I would not get a reading at all. (I have ground wire for TSC to the engine compartment sheet metal.) Anyone else experience this? Thanks in advance! I have my idle datalog to Jim, so moving along I suppose. Like to have a tach to see what is going on while driving. (I don't have my Tuner extension cord wired in yet Embarassed )
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Reck
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

[quote="Franagon I have installed the Tach Signal Converter (TSC) as explained by many Bostig veterans, and here is what happens... )[/quote]

Hi Franagon. Don't you have a '84 or '85? I don't have the manual close by, but I thought it says the tach will work without the conversion in our case.
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Reck
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

mpl wrote:

Franagon, congrats on on your first start! You and I had the same experience... I was also very (pleasantly) surprised that my Zetec fired up on the first key-turn. (I guess that the time I invested in freeing the injectors paid off!) It also took me a while to fully burp the cooling system.


Yes, congratulations Franagon. I'm at the stage where I'm starting to imagine doing it myself.

Mpl, I searched dozens of your build posts for details on what you did with your injectors to prep them. Couldn't find the post. Would you please link to that. I've been fretting about gummed up injectors since before day one. Thanks!
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mpl
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Reck wrote:
mpl wrote:
(I guess that the time I invested in freeing the injectors paid off!)

Mpl, I searched dozens of your build posts for details on what you did with your injectors to prep them. Couldn't find the post. Would you please link to that. I've been fretting about gummed up injectors since before day one. Thanks!

Reck, I didn't specifically write about this in my posts. Sorry for any confusion! All the info you need is on pages 94-95 of the Bostig RG6-RevA manual. As you zap the injectors with battery power, what will signal a "freed" injector is not just a light "tick" noise, but a slightly louder, slightly more metallic-sounding "TINK"-like noise. If you have a combo of stuck and unstuck injectors (as I did), then the distinction between the two will be pretty quickly obvious. Hope that helps!
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Reck
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Thanks Mpl! That sounds easy enough. I remember reading about someone setting up a forced solvent feed with all the injectors dismantled, looked like a lot of work.

No troubles, looking back through a bunch of your posts reminded me how much it helped to read someone struggling through with an '84-'85. One of the hitches I kept having was the manual and videos being written for the later models. It made me think I might start an "early model" Bostig thread to compile some of it together. Franagon's also contributed some good points. I've kept every scrap of wiring that came out of my '84 to photograph; that was one that had me stumped a long time, it's pretty different from later models.
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bosruten
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

I used a horse syringe filled with injector cleaner. Pressure the injector and start bumping it with 12 volts. Works like a charm.
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Reck! Holy cow! Good point! Here is the first line on the Tach Modification in the Bostig Manual: "The ECU signal from the Bostig conversion works seamlessly with the stock Vanagon tachometer from 1984-1985."

Damn it! Evil or Very Mad Man, I spent a great deal of time researching that, installing, gathering electrical connections, even working with Bostig on it many times, since our 84-85s are different, to even know what wire the tach is (and it is NOT green! as so many have flatly told me). Man.... Well, I will get that up for sale on the samba I suppose. I will try to return it to Bostig with the long list of items that do NOT work on 84-85. Damn it...

Hope someone will learn from this, at least. Thanks so much Reck for shining the light on that! You've read the manual more than I have. I never read that part due to that I was not going to follow that resistor mod, and instead use the tach sig conv. geez...
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Hey Reck,

I just 'bumped' my injectors as told in the Bostig manual. I used an 18V DeWalt drill battery and some wires to 'bump' them. I probably did it too early in the build process, but everything appears to be working fine for the most part. Once I get a little further, I would like to prepare some notes for 84-85 Vanagons and how the Bostig is different, and compare to others that maybe hit the same roadblocks. I think it was mpl that added a later Vanagon tach to his and used the TSC. That may have threw me a bit. I don't know how many people asked me if I had a 'stock' tach in mine. I want to say that was one of the upgrades for the Wolfsburg model. If I didn't have a stock tach I probably would have just added an AutoMeter and been done with a long time ago! Still a little sore about the time wasted on that venture... Mad
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Reck
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Franagon, sorry to hear of your extended unnecessary tach detour. That's very frustrating. Thanks for clarification on the injector bumping. I'd read that in the manual so long ago I'd forgotten it. It reminded me I needed to read through to the end, since I'm getting close.

Yes, every reference I've read of the tach wire is that it is green. My vanagon did not have a factory tach. It had a VDO aftermarket tach screwed onto the binnacle. Yet even that wire was a solid green wire, the only one of its type in the distro box.

Yes, the '84/'85 particularities (let's not call them quirks or peculiarities) are neglected in the general Bostig experience. It's slowed me down some, and confused me, and sent me off on temporary blind alleys, at various times. It's never risen to a level beyond that, for me, but it's something that could be improved. I am emphatically not offering a serious criticism. It's just that as you approach perfection (as Bostig has), the smaller issues become more glaring. Unless someone else gets there first, I'll start a thread here for all the things in the '84/'85 experience that could use a little advance warning or clarification.

I'm also going to offer Jim some proof reading!

Best of luck on your tune, when you get it back from Bostig. Am I correct in assuming a Bostig conversion runs on a Ford Ranger tune at first start up? That may be why you felt it to be a little off?

<<correction: just read the manual where it says to request a tune and load it before starting - Franagon, did you perhaps start without a Bostig tune, with the results that JudoJeff describe below?>>
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Last edited by Reck on Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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JudoJeff
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Reck,
The Zetec will start without the correct Bostig tune but doesn't run well. (Don't ask me how I know that)
I think I've screwed up in every way possible on this install, still worked out in the final results!

On injector clicking: if 9 volts don't work, go to 12v, if that doesn't work, go to 24v. If that fails, use the injector cleaner, otherwise add it to the first tank of gas. It's easy to remove the fuel rail, btw.
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1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
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Reck
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

JudoJeff wrote:
Reck,
The Zetec will start without the correct Bostig tune but doesn't run well. (Don't ask me how I know that)
I think I've screwed up in every way possible on this install, still worked out in the final results!

On injector clicking: if 9 volts don't work, go to 12v, if that doesn't work, go to 24v. If that fails, use the injector cleaner, otherwise add it to the first tank of gas. It's easy to remove the fuel rail, btw.


Thanks JudoJeff, invaluable tips! I've almost made every possible mistake, the difference being the availability of good advice here on TheSamba.
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Good check guys on the tune. From what I can tell I loaded the tune from Bostig. That seemed to go pretty well. I am actually surprised to hear that the Zetec will run with the Ranger tune! That is certainly interesting. Let's see, I sent Jim the datalog yesterday, and haven't heard back today yet, and I imagine he has a lot to come into on Mondays. Unwired the TSC and my tach worked like it should. I still have not drove it again yet, mostly to waiting on my new power steering reservoir. (I don't want to add fluid, just to drain it out again) I have no power steering right now, and it is beast without it! Yeh, sometimes I feel like getting on Bostig about the missing details and variations, but then I don't. I mean, it is meant for 83.5 and up Vanagons, so I imagine he has answered many of the same questions over and over again. He mentioned that RG6 had the most 84s he had ever seen, so by that, it seems like he would need to be sharper on that. Anyway, the kit has been refined a lot, and I believe is the best offering, that is why I went this way. Please let me know if you start a post on the early 80's Bostig group. I would like to chime in.

Thanks again all!
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Guybrush
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

What is you guys' method to safely lay the engine down? I'm on my RG7 install and actually doing the SK-A last, as I was doing everything else (although have to wait for a new evap valve in the mail as it was a different part #) while the engine was on the stand. Do you install SK-A while hanging on the chains (doesn't seem great for torquing, pilot bearing replacement etc...) or is it safe to lay it down on the HCOP (worried about straining the small bolts and rtv seal)?

I don't have an old tire I can use Smile

I guess the question remains the same for when it's time to slide it under the van.
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

I set mine down (onto a moving dolly) on the pan with no problem whatsoever. That oil pan is probably 10 times thicker than most steel pans. I had mine lightly set on a moving dolly, still hung and supported by my homemade garage roof/winch lift. That way as you bring your tranny in on another moving dolly, you can lift/adjust for mating of those two components. I rolled my engine and trans (mated) under the van, which was up on ramps (now on just one moving dolly). Just barely cleared, but hey it did! I was super concerned for fit underneath as well, but found the answers here on the Samba. You can use old carpet or cardboard between your dolly and engine/trans, to keep from scraping anything. Hope that helps!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Thanks!

I was not really concerned with the solidity of the pan itself, but the connection between the pan and the engine, since it's at an angle.
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Ah, gotcha on that. You'll see it is pretty darn solid connection. I just ordered my Bostig engine skidplate, so there is no possible way to injure the pan, even though it would take one hell of a hit to hurt that oil pan!
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Reck
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

I did the HCOP early and then had the engine on the hoist the rest of the time until ready to put it on the ground and mate it with the trans. Most of the time, it was sitting on the HCOP, on a piece of 3/4" plywood spanning the hoist legs. At various times, I needed to tilt it, or support it with wood chocks, but it was always resting on the HCOP, which I felt was plenty robust for that and more. The bolts are small but there are lots of them, buffered by a large mass of rtv. People report the HCOP taking hard hits in-car and shrugging it off. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Like Franagon, the rear of my car was up on jack stands. I put the engine down on a layer of thick plastic sheet under some cardboard, matched it to the trans, and slid the whole thing on the plastic into place under the car so I could engage the hoist again.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Thanks for the confirmation. Engine is now on the ground with SK-A and SK-M attached and all seems fine.

Working on the transaxle now, replacing the oil, then will mate them.

I have a question for those who have finished that part (I have emailed Jim but we might as well discuss it here too): I'm a bit perplexed by the heater hose connection. I have 7 feet of hose in the kit, but nowhere to connect them to as I already have heater hose coming all the way from the heater core (and it's a lot more than 7 feet on either side). Is this an uncommon situation (an 86)? Am I supposed to connect the old hoses (not sure yet if it reaches) to the Ford thermostat housing and the black tee? Or supposed to use some adapters to add the new hose to the already existing hose (I loath the idea of adding more clamped connections to the cooling system, which is one of the things that drove me nuts with the WBX).

Also, I'm planning to do the suggested coolant line cross over in the rear. Has any of you done that? I think that would mean connecting the hose going from the rear of the black tee to the bottom plastic pipe coming from the rad and the large hose from the thermostat housing to the top plastic pipe.
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