Hello and Type 3 in a Manx style..

[j_dirge]

Greetins all!

First post here in the buggy column..
Samba memebr, years in.. over on the Vanagon column... It has been MANY yrs since I touched an air cooled engine.


So I brought this buggy home a few weeks ago: (no engine)

And I found a stock Type 3 to power it up...

My quandry is.. 12v? or not and stick with 6v?
Type 3 guys have put modified 12v alternators in the Type 3 generator spot .. But I am wondering if anyone here has installed a 12v alternator on a regular Type 1 stand?
There appears to be room for the height.. Can I get the pulleys to line up Type 1 stand to Type 3 pulley?

I intend to remove the Type 3 outer shroud.

Thoughts?
Ideas?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[Dale M.]

The trend is to go to 12 volts... Since there is no engine (yet) on so the big expenses to change out 6 volt generator to alternator is not present.... Changing out most of the light bulbs and such is not to expensive or much of a problem... Since 12v devices draw less current than 6 volt devices electrical wiring should not be a problem as with 12 volts the average current load (amperage) the wire has to carry is about 1/2 what is required for 6 volts....

Caveat here is alternator will not fit generator stand it requires a alternator stand....

As for starter, you can use a 6 volt starter if you go easy on it (if that is want is on vehicle now).... Just dont crank on it for long sessions and it will be fine.... When It finally fails, get Bosch SR-17 (or equivalent) for auto stick transaxle and life is good as its a shelf supported starter and you no longer have to deal with bushing in bellhousing...

Only real issue will be windshield wipers, you can get 12 volt armature to convert 6v wipers to 12 v or just get a dropping resistor to cut voltage down from 12 to 6, but windshield wipers in a buggy?????

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[j_dirge]

[Dale M.]

Use your type 3 internals and put on type 1 (upright) cooling and all is good....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[j_dirge]

Found a 12v 30amp generator.. So that's the interim solution.
(30amps.. LOL)
Fits right where the 6v one is..

Planning to remove the rear cooling shroud.. Engine is fitted with a Type 1 buggy exhaust and the bundle of snakes covers the Type 3 intake pretty well.

Maybe I'll try the ceramic coated dual exhausts. Found a set that claims to clear the dual carbs.

Getting closer to a runner!....
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[drumbum68]

Do you have to go with the dual exhaust?

[slalombuggy]

The type 3 requires changing the fan housing to fit the bigger 12 v generator. There is no stand per say, it's part of the cooling system.

brad

[j_dirge]

[didget69]

Lo Cash John built an "up & over" header for his T3 install -

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=686045

bryan
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[j_dirge]

[j_dirge]

Its been awhile..

Yesterday was a hurdle cleared.
The buggy is insured!
Thank you Stratum/Progressive!

Its running.
Idles nicely... does OK in 1st/2nd..
Begins to bog in 3rd and 4th under load. Maybe air leaking in.
I don't think the chokes are working.

Some backfiring in those dual exhausts.. Have tinkered a bit.
Did the balancing routine. Adjusted. readjusted.. tried different settings. Certainly see results, but not necessarily good enough.
May need to remove the carbs and clean thorough;y.. and check for leaks.

Regardless.. Its nice to drive legally.. well except for no brake lights.. That's next up.. and hopefully just a loose or missing wire.
Shift linkage is all kinds of funky, too.
Towing it up to the Sierra in a few weeks for some fire road touring.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[j_dirge]

WELL!

THAT was exciting...

(Note to self.. Next time you buy someone else's project.. change out the ignition switch with a new one. FIRST... before ANYthing else.)

It had been a good couple of days.
I replaced the dual exhausts with a 4 into 1 "quiet" muffler exhaust system.. which was on the type 3 engine that I found to install in this buggy. The 4:1 makes the buggy far more pleasant to drive.. and masks some of the lingering dual carb tune issues.

I repaired the wiring and now have brake lights, turn signals, hi and low beams.. AND brake lights.. woo hoo!.

So I have been tooling around town a bit more.. having some fun in it. Its legal and insured.. WOO HOO!
Took my 9yr old daughter for ice cream. Had cones as we tooled home.
Life is good. Mango and strawberry for me.. Gummi bear strawberry for her.

And THEN...

Went for test spin after adjusting the clutch cable.. which cured some/most of the shifting issues.. and I have reverse again... triple WOO HOO!
Its been a productive weekend, indeed...

Returned to my garage.
Pulled in.. switched key off.. began to exit the buggy.. and the starter starts turning.. The key is out.. The buggy is in gear.. it moves forwward into my 89 Westy.. which is on 3 wheels and a jackstand as I await new rear bearings for it..

I hit the clutch pedal, instinctively.. my foot slips off in my haste and awkward half-in/half-out position.. The buggy pushes the van off the jacktsand.. Brakes aren't holding too well against the starter.
I reach back and pull the ground off the battery (which has not been tightened due to all the electrical issues of late.

I am EXTREMELY fortunate in that a tire was placed in front of the van and the tire prevented the van from rolling/falling into a load bearing wall (house above garage in the city)
The tire prevented a wall rack arm from hitting and denting the Westy's nose.. And a low overhang just BARELY tweaked my Westy's awning.. which could have been REAL ugly if the van were over to the side another inch or so..

The jack stand did not fall all the way as it tipped onto a second jackstand that caught it and held.

Oh man.. that could have been really ugly.

So.. some minor scratches and a little sheet metal ding on the van..
A scratch and gouge on the buggy front end where it hit the trailer hitch of the van.. no cracks!
..and my nerves are a bit frayed.


Holy crap. You read about this stuff happening to someone else.. but to experience it first hand?
yikes...

Break time!
(replacement ignition switch on its way... )
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[wythac]

Wow. I've had some compound domino disasters but that tale is something else. Glad for you that damage is minimal and no one was hurt.

I really like to look of the T3 on the back of the right body. Yours looks really good. I nearly bought a Bounty Hunter with a T3 engine in it and it looked great behind that car.

Better luck moving forward on your project. After running over my own foot while moving hot wires (!?) on my car I became a big fan of wheel chocks (and the patience to disconnect the positive lead).....

[gr8cobbler]

A cautionary tale to be sure, glad yours was just a close call. I've got a battery cut out switch and have been generally religious about flipping it when I exit the buggy. Given my ignition switch is a bit sketchy I think I'll remember it every time and set the emergency brake too.
_________________
Gary

Being a cheap old fart is just a front for my actual lack of money.

[didget69]

[j_dirge]

Thanks for the words of support guys.

I have a kill switch on my to-do list. I think that would be prudent.

I am reminded of a tale of woe..
As some of you might know, Vanagons have a bad habit of bursting into flames. Seems one lit up last year.. the fire shorted the cables to the starter.. and the van started rolling away under the power of the starter and battery.

Imagine that sight! A vanagon engulfed in flames rolling down the road, over a curb and into a building!?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[j_dirge]

Action shot.

At the lake.
The roll bar is quite handy for racking up all manners of floaties..
Had a raft on there, too.. in addition to the board and kayak (the next day)..

Flat towed the buggy behind the Vanagon for 160 miles or so... each way.
Like it wasn't even there.


Good times.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[Vanapplebomb]

'Eye Spy' an oil cooler. Where did all the cooling tin go?

Just a note, dual exhausts can make tuning dual single barrel carbs a bit of a pain. That may be part of why you are having difficulty dialing it in.

By the way, I love to look of pancake cooling systems in buggies. Sweet ride man.

[j_dirge]

Haha! BUSTED!
Yes I removed the cooling tins.
The oil cooler had begun spewing oil from the rock-hard bushings.
And removing the tins to get to it, meant removing most everything else, too.
PIA.
So I left them off for now.
The passenger side are off as well..
Have had it out on a 40 mile drive.. And it appears to still cool OK.. But I'll install a gauge eventually to keep an eye.
When you run the rpms up.. you can feel the rush of air forward along the buggy's side.. In fact... if you do it on a dusty road, you see the rush of air AND DUST.. along the side.

I have replaced the dual exhaust with a 4 into 1.. And it runs much better, but I still have backfiring into the exhaust on passenger side. More tinkering to be done with the carbs..
If a spot of time opens up.. the carbs will come off and get a cleaning.

I need to add a fuse bar. This thing has zero fuese!!
And the wiring is is pretty iffy, overall..
A series of "just get it to run" patches.


In other news.. My SVX engine is ready for install into the Vanagon... and that will leave the 2.1 WBXer available..
Hmmm..
VW Water-cooled FI buggy? 90hp? 091/1 trans?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[Vanapplebomb]

Not to be a dick, but you really need to get the tins back on...all of them. I guarantee you the underside of the heads and cylinders are roasting. The top may not be aweful because of the air blowing over the top...but that makes for very uneven temps which is really hard on parts. They arnt their to look pretty, each one has a very specific job.

You have to understand that this is not a Harley Davidson engine. Those have HUGE widely spaced cooling fins that can disparate a lot of heat with very little air flow just from driving down the road thru them. Compare them to VW cooling fins. VW fins are small and tightly spaced. They need a controlled forced draft to cool adequately. Road wind from driving down the road will not cut it man. It takes a good deal of pressure to push air thru those tiny densely packed fins. That's why they have powerful fans and cooling tin wrapping around the cylinders/heads.

Get the tins back on and save ourself the work of rebuilding your engine prematurely from warped and cooked parts.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021