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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| I only run platinums.and have insatlled hundreds of them for over 25 years. with no issues due to the plugs.execpt for longer lasting better idle,no missis etc. I think your car needs tuning.and possiably engine work too.first iwould start off with some berrymans fuel system cleaner $3.17 at walmart. run it through & then tune the car.or tune the car while it's in there. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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It's not your idle jet, that is supposed to be 65, you were correct there. (Especially seeing as how swapping to the 55 jet did not cure the problem.)
However your MAIN jet should be 112.5, and your air correction jet should be 125:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488876&view=previous
| Quote: |
VW 226-1 30PICT-3 113905205T Bug 1600
SP 8/69 112.5 125z 65 Manual |
This is kind of weird because a larger air correction jet (like what you have) should actually lean the mixture out, not make it run over-rich. However your 115 main jet WILL cause you to run rich. Personally I would swap the main jet to a 112.5, keep the 65 idle jet, and see how that does.
(Actually my autostick-modified 30 PICT 3 is supposed to be using a 140 air correction jet as opposed to the 125 that's in there now-- so I'd be happy to swap you my 125 for your 145!  )
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| sb001 wrote: |
It's not your idle jet, that is supposed to be 65, you were correct there. (Especially seeing as how swapping to the 55 jet did not cure the problem.)
However your MAIN jet should be 112.5, and your air correction jet should be 125:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488876&view=previous
| Quote: |
VW 226-1 30PICT-3 113905205T Bug 1600
SP 8/69 112.5 125z 65 Manual |
This is kind of weird because a larger air correction jet (like what you have) should actually lean the mixture out, not make it run over-rich. However your 115 main jet WILL cause you to run rich. Personally I would swap the main jet to a 112.5, keep the 65 idle jet, and see how that does.
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i lost my 112.5 main, they dont usually have that size at the local parts store (well sometimes they do). but ill see if i could get one then ill update. |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| sb001 wrote: |
(Actually my autostick-modified 30 PICT 3 is supposed to be using a 140 air correction jet as opposed to the 125 that's in there now-- so I'd be happy to swap you my 125 for your 145! ) |
I'd love to swap air correction jets with you... but i live 13,000 kilometers away from you |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| bug1200 wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
(Actually my autostick-modified 30 PICT 3 is supposed to be using a 140 air correction jet as opposed to the 125 that's in there now-- so I'd be happy to swap you my 125 for your 145! ) |
I'd love to swap air correction jets with you... but i live 13,000 kilometers away from you |
Yeah I was just noticing that.. too bad as the 140 jet is almost impossible to find around here it seems...
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| bug1200 wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
(Actually my autostick-modified 30 PICT 3 is supposed to be using a 140 air correction jet as opposed to the 125 that's in there now-- so I'd be happy to swap you my 125 for your 145! ) |
I'd love to swap air correction jets with you... but i live 13,000 kilometers away from you |
Yeah I was just noticing that.. too bad as the 140 jet is almost impossible to find around here it seems... |
its also hard to find jets here too, sometimes if you ask the parts store for a jet, for example a size 125 air, they would give you a 175 and tell you its a 125. but when you show the person at the store that its a 175, he will make up a story that "a big air correction jet will increase the amount of air that can go to the engine so you have more power blah blah blah" (but that was only one parts store!) |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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btw, i was reading a page from vw-resource.com that quote: "then wipe out the end of your exhaust tail pipe, or pipes, with a rag. Run about 100 miles and then look at the tail pipe. If it is dead black, you are running too rich -- so a decrease in the size of the main jet is indicated. If the color of the deposit is tan or brown, you are running too lean and the main jet size should be increased. If the color is rich grey, you're about right."
so could i check if its too rich or lean from the tailpipe instead of removing the spark plugs? im afraid i might strip the threads of the spark plug by removing and installing it over and over... |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| bug1200 wrote: |
its also hard to find jets here too, sometimes if you ask the parts store for a jet, for example a size 125 air, they would give you a 175 and tell you its a 125. but when you show the person at the store that its a 175, he will make up a story that "a big air correction jet will increase the amount of air that can go to the engine so you have more power blah blah blah" (but that was only one parts store!) |
At least your part stores carry jets...
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| bug1200 wrote: |
its also hard to find jets here too, sometimes if you ask the parts store for a jet, for example a size 125 air, they would give you a 175 and tell you its a 125. but when you show the person at the store that its a 175, he will make up a story that "a big air correction jet will increase the amount of air that can go to the engine so you have more power blah blah blah" (but that was only one parts store!) |
At least your part stores carry jets... |
yeah, but its a hassle going to the parts store here, i have to travel 8 kilometers with traffic that will barely move! |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:24 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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then why do you need spark plugs? Ride a bike.
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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i always bring a lot of stuff when i go somewhere, so a bike isnt the most practical mode of transportation  |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:02 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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UPDATE:
i changed to 112.5 main, 125 air, and 65 idle.
a bit better, but still black in the sides:
maybe i should use a size 60 idle instead?
and btw, i installed the vacuum can of my old 205k distributor in my current 205t distributor (just for fun), increased the tension of the spring, then timed it at 10 degrees btdc. would a more advanced idle timing make it run leaner or richer? |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:19 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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just an up for this thread...
1-4 from left to right...
spark plugs 1 and 3 are lean, 2 and 4 are rich... any ideas? |
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DeathTrap
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Sacramento/Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| bug1200 wrote: |
just an up for this thread...
1-4 from left to right...
spark plugs 1 and 3 are lean, 2 and 4 are rich... any ideas? |
I do not think that is an accurate conclusion. As visual results are based on the end of the ring of metal threads section and not the porcelain, electrode or grounding arm..
So they are all rich. |
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hobbybob517
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1194
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| DeathTrap wrote: |
| bug1200 wrote: |
just an up for this thread...
1-4 from left to right...
spark plugs 1 and 3 are lean, 2 and 4 are rich... any ideas? |
I do not think that is an accurate conclusion. As visual results are based on the end of the ring of metal threads section and not the porcelain, electrode or grounding arm..
So they are all rich. |
Realy? I've always checked my plugs by the elektrode/grounding arm.
Guess i learnt something today.
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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Even 60 is going to be too rich, but at least you'll be closer to the proper size than 65 is. After 60, go leaner "2" at a time, not "5". "5" is way too big a change for an idle jet, at a time.
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:04 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Even 60 is going to be too rich, but at least you'll be closer to the proper size than 65 is. After 60, go leaner "2" at a time, not "5". "5" is way too big a change for an idle jet, at a time. |
I've installed the size 55 idle jet again, then I'll give you guys an update. |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:12 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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ive read that platinum spark plugs have thinner electrodes than the "regular" ones so you have to increase the plug gap to compensate or something... should i increase the plug gap?
my plugs are also resistor plugs... maybe its affecting the spark somehow? |
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bug1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:18 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=484328
| torsionbar wrote: |
platinum plugs have a very tiny center electrode that quickly fouls when used with carbs and points. platinum plugs are designed for modern computer controlled fuel-injected engines, that have very tightly controlled air/fuel mixtures and timing.
you also don't want resistor plugs. resistor plugs are also designed for modern computer controlled engines. the resistor supposedly reduces electrical interference that could be harmful to the engine management computers. the resistor also reduces the energy of the spark. with carbs and points, you don't have any sensitive computers, and you want the maximum spark energy.
so no platinum, and no resistors. |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
I used platinum plugs starting in the early 1980s in my bug. Ran about 95,000 miles on that engine before I started getting a rod knock and retired it. I think I only replaced the plugs once. So, 45,000+ miles average on a set with zero issues.
The problem with premature fouling of platinum plugs is, most people just gap them to stock specs. But, Platinum plugs have a smaller electrode and make a little smaller spark, so you have to increase the gap a little to make the same spark as a stock plug. Those that have trouble with platinum plugs usually haven't gapped them correctly, or have some other issue with their engine like running too rich.
At least that's my experience. |
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vamram 
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7300
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:51 am Post subject: Re: spark plug color |
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I'm not an expert but based on what I've read from some here and in the manuals. - get yourself a Bentley asap - psi should be 2.5-3 so at 4 you're too high. U need a fuel pressure regulator. Manx (of dune buggy fame) had a good detailed video on setting one up.
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