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Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2312 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Descriptors like “uniquely German mindset” are phrases that Americans understand. And I hate to be the one to say it, but the engineers that replaced the Vanagon with the Eurovan are not the postwar Germans who were humbled by the Nazi atrocities and American defeat. The insinuation of the story is that these VW Germans had regressed to the usual arrogant attributes of the prewar era, being a generation removed from that embarrassment. The Beetle, the Type 2, Rabbit and Vanagon were all sensible modest vehicles that Americans loved. Its as if to say that the “corporate culture of cheating” is the New Fascism. A slightly kinder facsism than Germany showed us in the past. I suppose we should be grateful for that. _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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pablum Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2015 Posts: 562
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Americans rely on Civil Tort Lawyers' "opinions" to judge german culture. Story at 11.
Kinda embarrassing. Moreso than the whole diesel scandal, imho. Someone opined their customer base wanted high performance and great gas mileage, and that's what they got.
Someone else opined that business will be run like a business, without morals; so it is up to the voting public to legislate constraints that limit what business can do.
Not to mention the lengthy history of (american) companies doing their best to work around emission laws. |
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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Good grief, please send this to off topic area. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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I hate to say this, but it is a known fact of life that the Deutschlander cars, trucks are an electrical nightmare.
Always have been, probably always will be.
"Keep it simple stupid" doesn't translate well.
Roll over to any car dealer and bend any mechanics ear.
You'll find out. _________________ T.K. |
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nemobuscaptain Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 3874
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Hyperbole.
Find an article that suggests VW made a smart decision not to ramp up a multi-billion dollar project on the hope that American buyers would pay 40k for nostalgia. No such article exists. Here's a scoop: VW's simply smarter than that. Of the people whacking to pictures of that bus- what percentage of those would actually plunk money down on one? The NB was a much higher percentage- and VW knows it. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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pablum Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2015 Posts: 562
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Yeah what he said. Desperate journalism fabricates a controversy |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
Roll over to any car dealer and bend any mechanics ear.
You'll find out. |
yep....
MOST ring diag on a Volvo for the radio being inop, and needing a 900.00 IAM, plus a 100.00 program
note the laptop on the drivers seat. that's what it takes to keep these toilets rolling these days....
remember that when your touchscreen takes a dump, controls your HVAC, radio, and all the other "goodies" you "can't live without" _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Having lived this roller coaster myself, I have a little insight. I was in the fortunate position in the early 2000's to afford a new car. I had driven all kinds of VWs all my life. I still had the '67 westy rolling around, going to semi-local VW shows, and having fun being a 30 something self built businessman. I heard that the last model year of the Westfalia was going to be the 2003, so I talked a nearby dealer into getting me one to look at. It came across a couple states on a transport, and I got all the paperwork fixed up and cleared. Was the first new vehicle I bought. And most likely the last.
As I was talking to the dealership, they had some nifty glossies of the Microbus. The dealer hoped that in a few years I could come back and get one of these as my next new car. I liked the looks, but the idea that it could be sold to folks like me who actually knew what the original was, was ridiculous.
The idea was sickly sweet. Yet another attempt at getting nostalgic enthusiasts to believe in VW again. I am of the opinion that it was people like me that were actually the reason the redone Microbus was not going to fly. I already HAD the fun of the early bus. In fact, I had 3 in my yard at that time. I still have one in my yard now. That era is part of the wonderful history that I keep, in the way it is meant to be kept, restored or restorable. They were inexpensive to make, and at the time, were easy to maintain. They were not meant to last too long. So, those people believing in the "flower power" stuff stuck with rigs that have all gone to rust and dust, or stayed with those folks that are still able to do what it takes to make them go.
This is not the way car makers work now. VW has no interest in flower power. They long ago left off trying to keep hippies happy. You know where the $'s are? Not with the kids who scrape by to keep old tin functioning while weeping that things aren't the way they used to be.
VW can, and I mean CAN, do what ever they want. They can make very few cars that come to the US, its not going to hurt the monster they have become if they do or do not make a retro for a few folks like me that would buy a brand new Microbus.
I don't really want the retro, but it would be nice to have the option of buying one. What I want is the one that is already out there. The California. I think the forward progression of the transporter, moving forward, keeping the idea of the original in progress is what, at least a few of us, are looking for.
It is as easy a decision as any that a car maker can make. My opinion of why the California is not imported to the US (yet) is this: VW wants the 'flower people' to take a hike. Cars are sold to a different kind of folks now. They sell cars to make things look good for VW, and not to appease the needs of anyone but VW.
The California is selling in Europe because there are a new kind of folks that want to go camping. It is a relatively new phenomenon over there that people actually wan to camp! When those folks grow a little older, they will again stay at a Villa, or resort. Then VW will have to come up with a new generation of the transporter to get that new generation of buyers interested. It may or may not be a retro look. And I don't really care. What I care about is function. What I believe to be the traditional German Engineering goal is, was, and always should be is this: Form Follows Function. Its simple. Make a retro fit that? Not a chance.
Just my opinion, but one gleaned from 4 decades of Bauhaus (Wiemar) training, handed down from generation to generation in the European Guild tradition since the 14th century. Master to Apprentice. Don't believe for a minute that there aren't some good folks at VW that still hold tradition and craftsmanship in mind. It is unfortunate when others in the company cut away at this core philosophy. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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What's mind blowing to me is the lack of accountability (yet again) in that the top management of VW is not going to jail for a blatant criminal act. How many times have we seen this? CEO's knowingly cheating, stealing, manipulating and then resigning when they are caught w/a HUGE golden parachute of millions and a smile on their face.
The key management of VW that signed off on this software should all be tried in court and then do serious jail time. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Forthwithtx Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 717 Location: Fort Worth
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Enjoyed the article.
It reminded me of an Engineer friend who worked for Baer, making HVAC systems for trucks. It was a Germany-based company with a US-based office. He's a brilliant designer, and had a lot of novel ideas for duct geometry and construction using airflow dynamic analysis and sound manufacturing techniques. Ultimately, the Germany-based Engineering folks stymied his ideas and innovations through pure arrogance. No American Engineer was going to drive the design direction.
They had much better ideas, of course. Think Vanagon HVAC.
I had a 1966 Beetle, and later a 1998 New Beetle. Two completely different cars, sharing only an outward design flavor. I long for a simple steel dashboard car with the simplest of controls and accouterments, with a similarly simple price. Like the old Beetle or the '70's Jeep. _________________ Cheers!
-Karl
'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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I drove a bus once, it was okay. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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Spezialist Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 1941
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Gnarlodious wrote: |
Descriptors like “uniquely German mindset” are phrases that Americans understand. And I hate to be the one to say it, but the engineers that replaced the Vanagon with the Eurovan are not the postwar Germans who were humbled by the Nazi atrocities and American defeat. The insinuation of the story is that these VW Germans had regressed to the usual arrogant attributes of the prewar era, being a generation removed from that embarrassment. The Beetle, the Type 2, Rabbit and Vanagon were all sensible modest vehicles that Americans loved. Its as if to say that the “corporate culture of cheating” is the New Fascism. A slightly kinder facsism than Germany showed us in the past. I suppose we should be grateful for that. |
Lol, I mean really.
It's a German automotive forum problem. I've seen it on more than just VW websites. The veiled blackness of the past just can't be scrubbed off the mindset. Just hope it doesn't get on you. _________________
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bigdog1962 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2010 Posts: 1584 Location: Augusta, Georgia
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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I just find this a little hard to believe....not saying it's not true, but hard to believe.
"Put simply, the software in the German cars could detect when the car was in the shop for an emissions test—or in a regulator’s lab. On sensing this the computers adjusted the exhaust settings so that the emissions fell within the permitted range. Once the car returned to the road the engine reverted to its dirty normal. This is known as a defeat device." _________________ Oprn wrote: I'm getting to the age that any self propelled woman (no wheel chair or walker) looks HOT!! Oooo! look at that Babe! She made it from the dining room all the way to the TV room without help!! Hubba, hubba!! |
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Cali_Army_Guy Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2015 Posts: 2094 Location: Stockton, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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bigdog1962 wrote: |
I just find this a little hard to believe....not saying it's not true, but hard to believe.
"Put simply, the software in the German cars could detect when the car was in the shop for an emissions test—or in a regulator’s lab. On sensing this the computers adjusted the exhaust settings so that the emissions fell within the permitted range. Once the car returned to the road the engine reverted to its dirty normal. This is known as a defeat device." |
There's an entire thread on this already. And it's not hard to believe if you actually think. New cars have all sorts of sensors.
So let's see. Drive wheels are turning but the other wheels aren't. Computer isn't stupid. It knows the car can't possibly be on the road as all 4 wheels aren't turning. Car also knows there is ZERO steering input being made. So with that info the car goes in to defeat mode. Pretty simple actually. _________________ 2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition
1966 VW Beetle - Sold |
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Spezialist Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 1941
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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Cali_Army_Guy wrote: |
bigdog1962 wrote: |
I just find this a little hard to believe....not saying it's not true, but hard to believe.
"Put simply, the software in the German cars could detect when the car was in the shop for an emissions test—or in a regulator’s lab. On sensing this the computers adjusted the exhaust settings so that the emissions fell within the permitted range. Once the car returned to the road the engine reverted to its dirty normal. This is known as a defeat device." |
There's an entire thread on this already. And it's not hard to believe if you actually think. New cars have all sorts of sensors.
So let's see. Drive wheels are turning but the other wheels aren't. Computer isn't stupid. It knows the car can't possibly be on the road as all 4 wheels aren't turning. Car also knows there is ZERO steering input being made. So with that info the car goes in to defeat mode. Pretty simple actually. |
actually its called "Limp Home Mode"
I played with a mercedes sprinter recently, what a piece of garbage, and they are all like that. I'm so over the german car superiority thing its redonkulas. _________________
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bigdog1962 Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2010 Posts: 1584 Location: Augusta, Georgia
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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I'm naïve when it comes to these things.
Just can't imaging being in the room when this is first suggested. But, I guess the person that came up with the idea was around a group of folks that were like-minded. _________________ Oprn wrote: I'm getting to the age that any self propelled woman (no wheel chair or walker) looks HOT!! Oooo! look at that Babe! She made it from the dining room all the way to the TV room without help!! Hubba, hubba!! |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3448 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Why we never got a New VW Bus |
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bigdog1962 wrote: |
I just find this a little hard to believe....not saying it's not true, but hard to believe.
"Put simply, the software in the German cars could detect when the car was in the shop for an emissions test—or in a regulator’s lab. On sensing this the computers adjusted the exhaust settings so that the emissions fell within the permitted range. Once the car returned to the road the engine reverted to its dirty normal. This is known as a defeat device." |
Actually the ECM detects a OBD reader when it is plugged into the car's harness and re-adjust it's emissions. |
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