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Karmann Gheezer Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 429
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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In my quest to finish putting together my '59 Ghia coupe I've discovered the seller mistakenly sent me the wrong door glass (it was marked '58 coupe). I don't have a photo but I'm in need of a set of door glass for a '59-1/2 coupe to finish the doors. I am in hopes that glass from '59-1/2 and later will work. And I'm not too concerned about details of the Sekurit logo. So any information will be helpful.
To help other early Ghia owners I thought I'd document and show some photos of the difference in the doors, window lift channels, and window regulators (or winders as their called in the VW parts manual). If there are any discrepancies please let me know.
For more info regarding early Ghia (lowlight) convertible door glass please refer to this thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=352875&highlight=lowlight+door+glass
This is the door glass that came with the '59 (marked 58 coupe). It's badly scratched. Probably from the worn out and missing rubber roller (see below).
Door glass mechanism for '55-'58
Door glass mechanism for '59.
Photo taken from my '58 Cabriolet. Notice the strip of track for the Lift Channel that has a rubber roller.
This is a comparison of a '58 and '59 door.
I like to keep a log of screws used for Early Ghias. Here are the bolts used for the door glass mechanisms.
This screw looks exactly like the screws for the door hinges except it's a flat head. A beveled washer is used but not showing.
(6) bolts and washers for the winder.
_________________
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Loren Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1694
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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It looks like you have a late production 59 that would use the 60 and later door glass. Great documentation on the door diferences! |
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ScottDoonan Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2005 Posts: 546 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: You are awsome! |
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It is very cool that you are so well versed in the subtle, but important changes for these cars. It is also nice of you to take the time and share it with all of us. Thanks for all of the insite and differences in parts that you point out and document here on the fourm, it makes a huge difference. |
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Paul_Revere's Ghia Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 973 Location: South Wales, UK
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Karmann Gheezer Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 429
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Paul_Revere's Ghia wrote: |
I have a late 59 coupe and will snap some pictures of the door glass tomorrow if it helps- this is a difference I never knew off before- |
Thanks for your time, Seth. Look forward to your pics. And congrats on your getting your cool ride on the road.
Thanks to all for your comments. I have a lead on a set of '59 glass but want to make sure it's correct before the deal is done and shipped.
R _________________
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Loren Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1694
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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A quick look in the old Ghia parts book provides the following information (be warned that this is just a guide, since there was no hard and fast rule for when the new parts were actually installed)
1. Door glass up to chassis number 2 395 180 (roughly Jan. 59)
2. Door glass 2 395 181 - 2 528 667 (roughly Jan 59 - Aug 59)
3. Door glass 2 528 668 - 141 3200 000 (roughly Aug. 59 - 74)
This would mean that there is a 1/2 year style of glass! Yikes, I never realized this. Does your vin number fall in the 2 395 181 - 2 528 667 range? I just checked and my rough all original 59 Ghia falls in this range. I can take some pics of the door interior if you like? |
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theghiagirl Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004 Posts: 537 Location: Near Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Do your doors use the metal holding spring or the later style rubber coated check strap with pins and rollers? The reason that I ask is that I have noticed that if the doors use the later style rubber check strap then they also use the later style door glass. Later style being 1959 1/2-1974
My 1959 Pearl Cabriolet (actually 1959 1/2) built late June 1959 had the later style rubber coated checkstraps and also had glass that was the later style convertible glass. The only difference I have noticed is in the logos. So for convertibles 1959 1/2 to 1974 door glass is the same except for the Logos. I would think that this is the same for coupes, but I'm not 100% sure. I have read that the reproduction coupe door glass for 1960-1974 as being the same, but I believe it should be 1959 1/2-1974. |
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Karmann Gheezer Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 429
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Loren wrote: |
A quick look in the old Ghia parts book provides the following information (be warned that this is just a guide, since there was no hard and fast rule for when the new parts were actually installed)
1. Door glass up to chassis number 2 395 180 (roughly Jan. 59)
2. Door glass 2 395 181 - 2 528 667 (roughly Jan 59 - Aug 59)
3. Door glass 2 528 668 - 141 3200 000 (roughly Aug. 59 - 74)
This would mean that there is a 1/2 year style of glass! Yikes, I never realized this. Does your vin number fall in the 2 395 181 - 2 528 667 range? I just checked and my rough all original 59 Ghia falls in this range. I can take some pics of the door interior if you like? |
Loren, I noticed that too in my VW Parts book. That was my concern - a one year only. My '59 VIN is #2433323 and falls right in that range too.
Check out the VW parts list book showing 4 different glass for coupes. And only 2 different for convertible. Doesn't make sense but might prove what Lisa says that convertible glass is the same for 1959-1/2 through 1974. Good stuff to research.
Yes, pictures would always be helpful so please send. Troy is sending me a set of glass from an Aug '59 coupe. Before installing them I plan to take photos and measurements for documentation. Anyone else that can help provide information please do.
theghiagirl wrote: |
Do your doors use the metal holding spring or the later style rubber coated check strap with pins and rollers? The reason that I ask is that I have noticed that if the doors use the later style rubber check strap then they also use the later style door glass. Later style being 1959 1/2-1974
My 1959 Pearl Cabriolet (actually 1959 1/2) built late June 1959 had the later style rubber coated checkstraps and also had glass that was the later style convertible glass. The only difference I have noticed is in the logos. So for convertibles 1959 1/2 to 1974 door glass is the same except for the Logos. I would think that this is the same for coupes, but I'm not 100% sure. I have read that the reproduction coupe door glass for 1960-1974 as being the same, but I believe it should be 1959 1/2-1974. |
Lisa, my doors have the later rubber coated check strap with roller pins like yours. I see that your Vin # is 2469xxx and is a June '59. All my parts are dated May '59. It will be interesting to learn more about this as we go.
On a side note, my window regulators, clock, speedometer are all dated May '59. Other than Lemmerz beauty rings that came with dates stamped, can anyone think of other parts that are date stamped from the factory
R _________________
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Loren Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1694
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I will see if I can take a few pics of the driver side door interior this weekend. There is also a date on the door latches, aluminum VDO speedo nut, wheels (I think the wheels have a date stamp), and.....? |
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Paul_Revere's Ghia Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 973 Location: South Wales, UK
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Karmann Gheezer Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 429
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sending, Seth. Notice in your photo the window lift is level versus the angled of '58 glass.
I haven't received the glass I ordered from an Aug '59 yet. I'm curious to know about the holes in the glass. Does anyone know what year they appeared? '59? '60?
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Scooterboyd Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2009 Posts: 342 Location: Rancho Cordova, California
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have the holes on my 60. I have a spare set of doors 59-60 with coupe windows in them and they have the holes too. You put bolts through the holes when mounting to the channel. The replacement rubber piece that goes in between the glass and the metal holder that surrounds the bottom of the glass, doesn't have a piece of rubber to go inside the glass hole. So, I had to buy a rubber grommet @ Home Depot and shave it to the correct thickness of the glass. That way the bolt won't chip the glass. _________________ President of "Society of Unappreciated Overachievers"
62 - 23 Window Bus
60 - Karmann Ghia Convertible
59 - Convertible Raceable Baja Bug
63 - Dune Buggy
65 - Single Cab |
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Shawn Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 63 Location: York, PA
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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So can anyone tell me how the glass is mounted to the lift channel for 59 and earler? There's the lift channel, the rubber pad, then the glass with no holes. Looks like the previous owner epoxied the rubber to the inside of the channel, then epoxied the glass down into the rubber. Is there a 'proper' way? |
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Karmann Gheezer Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 429
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Loren wrote: |
Does your vin number fall in the 2 395 181 - 2 528 667 range? |
My cabriolet is a '58. But anyone with an early '59 Convertible will have a tough time if they every have to replace their glass.
Shawn wrote: |
So can anyone tell me how the glass is mounted to the lift channel for 59 and earler? |
To my knowledge just the bracket and rubber gasket snugly griping the glass is all thats needed. It would be tedious work to use a block of wood and hammer to set the bracket and rubber gasket securely in place. And being very careful enough to not break the glass. _________________
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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Hi ya'll!!
It's been a loong time since I've been active on here and the same goes on building the car so please bear with me. Although I have been slowly collecting parts I really haven't done much due to other priorities (family and work). I now have told myself it's time to S**t or get off the pot because it's only been 14 years. With that being said I've been trying to get glass for the car and ugh! It's a 58 coupe but I haven't pinpointed the month, I'm a bit confused because in the tech section it would be a 59 but the registration and the above photos of the window channels say's it's a 58.The Bently manuals show the channels opposite..up to 57 show the lift channel perpendicular to the guide rail and the 58-60 book show the angled lift channel. I didn't need this for my first assignment getting back to the car WIth that said I have the perpendicular lift channels, the metal strip for the roller and only the drivers side angled door glass which is really scratched up. I'm not sure if the glass is available now or would it be better or possible to just change the lift channel with a later one along with the glass? would the regulator still work or would I have to change that also and up to what year would work for a possible swap? Now I remember why I said I'd never own another ghia
Sorry for such a long winded post, let the games begin and this car get done!
Julio |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13943 Location: Southampton U.K.
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itsawesty Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2016 Posts: 101 Location: St Albans, UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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Julio Iniguez wrote: |
Hi ya'll!!
It's been a loong time since I've been active on here and the same goes on building the car so please bear with me. Although I have been slowly collecting parts I really haven't done much due to other priorities (family and work). I now have told myself it's time to S**t or get off the pot because it's only been 14 years. With that being said I've been trying to get glass for the car and ugh! It's a 58 coupe but I haven't pinpointed the month, I'm a bit confused because in the tech section it would be a 59 but the registration and the above photos of the window channels say's it's a 58.The Bently manuals show the channels opposite..up to 57 show the lift channel perpendicular to the guide rail and the 58-60 book show the angled lift channel. I didn't need this for my first assignment getting back to the car WIth that said I have the perpendicular lift channels, the metal strip for the roller and only the drivers side angled door glass which is really scratched up. I'm not sure if the glass is available now or would it be better or possible to just change the lift channel with a later one along with the glass? would the regulator still work or would I have to change that also and up to what year would work for a possible swap? Now I remember why I said I'd never own another ghia
Sorry for such a long winded post, let the games begin and this car get done!
Julio |
Pete Morley @ Californian Classics in the UK was working on producing repro lowlight glass - not sure what the status is on that https://www.californianclassics.co.uk/
I was missing glass for my lowlight, and sourced all the later car window regulator and new glass stuff. I spent days trying to get it right, and couldn't. I think the aperture in the lowlight doors is shorter, and the later glass longer (the new, later glass i had was definatley longer than the lowlight glass i finally got a hold of). I could not get the glass to meet the rubber seal on the roof body before it hit the edges of the door aperture.
Some say you can do it. Maybe i got unlucky, maybe I'm crap at windows, maybe i got the rubber seal on the roof wrong. Maybe the new roof body seals is so stiff it pushed the window out of position. Maybe the repro later glass i had was not the best. I'd persevere with sourcing lowlight glass, either used or new if it ever becomes available. I finally found some used, and had the windows in and aligned in half a day. _________________ '59 Ghia build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737729
'73 Westy
'90 Scirocco
2003 911
www.hertfordshirevehiclestorage.com |
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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John Moxon wrote: |
Welcome back Julio. The 58-59 vin #s in the Samba Archive are a bit screwed up so apart from getting the birth certificate the best way to get a rough idea of the birth date is to have a look through the vin #s for '58s in The KG Lowlight Registry: http://www.kglowlightregistry.com/
This link is for all the '58s registered there, 236 of them. They are listed chronilogically and some have recorded the exact build dates, it should give you a good idea as to your build date: http://www.kglowlightregistry.com/index.php?Year=1...ass%5B%5D=
A reasonable start point in your investigation anyway. |
Thank you for the welcome back shout out. Now this is what I’m talking about! Thank you John! So according to the vin# sequence on the registry, it puts my ghia at a March 58 build. So it’s official, I have the fun door glass to track down or have made. At least I know where I’m at now, here we go! |
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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itsawesty wrote: |
Julio Iniguez wrote: |
Hi ya'll!!
It's been a loong time since I've been active on here and the same goes on building the car so please bear with me. Although I have been slowly collecting parts I really haven't done much due to other priorities (family and work). I now have told myself it's time to S**t or get off the pot because it's only been 14 years. With that being said I've been trying to get glass for the car and ugh! It's a 58 coupe but I haven't pinpointed the month, I'm a bit confused because in the tech section it would be a 59 but the registration and the above photos of the window channels say's it's a 58.The Bently manuals show the channels opposite..up to 57 show the lift channel perpendicular to the guide rail and the 58-60 book show the angled lift channel. I didn't need this for my first assignment getting back to the car WIth that said I have the perpendicular lift channels, the metal strip for the roller and only the drivers side angled door glass which is really scratched up. I'm not sure if the glass is available now or would it be better or possible to just change the lift channel with a later one along with the glass? would the regulator still work or would I have to change that also and up to what year would work for a possible swap? Now I remember why I said I'd never own another ghia
Sorry for such a long winded post, let the games begin and this car get done!
Julio |
Pete Morley @ Californian Classics in the UK was working on producing repro lowlight glass - not sure what the status is on that https://www.californianclassics.co.uk/
I was missing glass for my lowlight, and sourced all the later car window regulator and new glass stuff. I spent days trying to get it right, and couldn't. I think the aperture in the lowlight doors is shorter, and the later glass longer (the new, later glass i had was definatley longer than the lowlight glass i finally got a hold of). I could not get the glass to meet the rubber seal on the roof body before it hit the edges of the door aperture.
Some say you can do it. Maybe i got unlucky, maybe I'm crap at windows, maybe i got the rubber seal on the roof wrong. Maybe the new roof body seals is so stiff it pushed the window out of position. Maybe the repro later glass i had was not the best. I'd persevere with sourcing lowlight glass, either used or new if it ever becomes available. I finally found some used, and had the windows in and aligned in half a day. |
Thanks a bunch for the info on your experience/quest. I was thinking of sourcing the lift channel, regulator and glass from a no later than a 64 but now I’m having second thoughts. California classics are only offering 60~74 door glass and sadly no 55~58 at this time. At least your experience can help me to hopefully figure this out. I’m going to contact a couple of VW restoration shops out here to see how they’ve dealt with this. Maybe I’ll get lucky and one of them will have a stockpile of NOS early glass One can dream. |
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Doug914 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2009 Posts: 96 Location: Northern New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Early Ghia (Lowlight) Door Window Glass Info |
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Hey all. I’m having the same problem with my late 59’ Lowlight on the drivers side door glass. I know this glass was recently replace during its recent fixes from the previous owner. My problems are identical to what isawesty described. After messing with this for days, I concluded the glass was just too wide by approx 1/4”. Finally Measuring the rightside to compare confirmed it.
Anyone out there have a spare left side door glass for a 59 1/2 Ghia they could part with? _________________ 1959 Karmann Ghia
1960 Single Cab
1956 Beetle Oval Window |
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