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A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one)
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

Ok...so I go off a lot about this recently....but as probably ONE OF the type 4 owners on this and most forums....with a lot of years and experience of owning, working on and driving type 4's (38 years of ownership and work)....I feel I have some insight.

I am saying this because lots of new-ish type 4 owners are showing up here and other places lately (Bravo!)....and asking questions about where to find and how to fix...a range of parts that are type 4 only....have not been made for decades.....are increasingly rare in used condition as wrecked parts cars are getting harder to find.....and are VERY rare in NOS.

The points I am about to make I have tried to make to both type 3 and bus owners. Many think I am just being alarmist. But...bug, bus and type 3 parts and vehicles were made in a massive numbers as compared to 411 and 412...and the modern range...say 1968 and on....of these other types ran all the way to 1979.
Ours were made from 1968-1974....and in the US were largely only available from late 1970 to 1974.

The main point....start doing the work to preserve the rare type 4 only parts you have and insure they stay working and do not break.

A couple of points:

1. Some would say for most items they have little issue picking up used type 4 specific parts in the classifieds.

Understand this....those parts are available almost strictly because those cars have been stripped of anything saleable and are crushed. Those parts are being liquidated. If they are not bought...they will be crushed as well. There is no forever supply of new wrecks to strip for parts.

Most of those selling type 4 parts in the classifieds picked these cars up on a whim or in a deal...and want to get rid of them. At some point when they do not sell...they are gone.

2. For the range of parts I am speaking of ...and I will get to that in a minute.....just because you find them in a junkyard does mean they are USEFUL.
From a junkyard...all of these parts are in general....are 40 years old, have heat, moisture and sun exposure, have dried out lubricants, aged plastics....and plain old wear from miles of use.

Getting a used part to work with is simply delaying the inevitable. Simply installing a good used working part and motoring away with full functionality and a smug feeling you got it fixed for cheap....is not the end of the story.

3. Also....save for some wrecks that were so far gone there was nothing left...and the VERY occasional oddity 411/412 showing up in a pick and pull after being bought out of the yard of an estate sale.....the days of commonly finding 411/412's in junkyards....is pretty much gone.

Very few dedicated old VW "boneyards" in most parts of the country get or keep 412's...because they take up space and are a long time between sales of parts. The vast majority of new-ish salvage yards.....are actually scrap metal yards earning petty cash from auto salvage. The cars stay a short time but inevitably move toward the crusher in the center of the yard.

So......what kind of parts am I talking about?

Aside from the obvious large hard parts like body, suspension and glass.....some of the most critical to function that are type 4 specific .....AND REQUIRE SOME MAINTENANCE BECAUSE THEY ARE OLD...are these:

Dash lighting switches like the headlights and flashers
All cable pull assemblies like gas flap, trunk opening flap and hood opening flap and associated latches
The window lift assemblies
The bowden cables on the fresh are flap assemblies under the dash

There are more we can get to later....

These parts are unique to type 4. Other parts from "similar" cars like type 3 or late super will not fit...without either A LOT of fabrication and modification...or not at all.

These are parts that people pick up out of the junkyard...and if they are not broken and they work...people goo on their merry way. The problem is that the seeds of their death ...wear and age...were there long before you found these new/old/used parts.

Many of these parts....could last for EONS more of usage....but you have to invest some time and effort. Disassembly....cleaning.....adjustment....adding protective coatings when necessary...and adding modern/improved lubricants to insure the parts do not destroy themselves.

If you are the casual owner....car seems to work...why work on anything that is not critical?.....or drive so few miles ...2000-3000 per year....and figure why worry?....this is for you.
I am not saying you need to go to the lengths I do or that ClassicCamper does...or that your car even needs to look good.

But if you want to keep driving it...you really need to start investing some time in "preservation"...not just preventive maintenance.

This is why I have been dropping in so many "how-to's" lately....mainly because the pictures and much of the text has been done and archived for several years....but this is the slow business season for me...and I have some time so I am getting them out.

Ray
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sergio92626
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

Ray, just finished reading your text regarding VW412 parts. How appropriate because I am running into exactly the problem you describe. Parts will continue to be difficult, if not impossible, to find.
I am the sole owner of a 2-door 1973 VW412. The situation I have is that I "rebuilt" the clutch master cyl with Rockauto parts and it worked just right. Today, after 2 months of not using the vehicle, the clutch pedal does not work, ie, it feels very free to move, there is no fluid leak, and the reservoir is full. Could it be the supply line from the reservoir to the clutch master cyl is plugged? or could there be a problem with the clutch slave cyl? And do you have any suggestions where these parts might be available?
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

Interesting rant!

About 18 years ago I bought a '70 411 squareback to keep it from the crusher. I really don't have a very strong interest in restoring it myself but just hate to see it destroyed. It was running when I bought it but has two side windows broke and the reverse gear I think is out of place so the transaxle will need work. Some bright ninny in the past took all the seat belts out and tossed them too! It's a fuel injected manual transmission car in dark green.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Interesting rant!

About 18 years ago I bought a '70 411 squareback to keep it from the crusher. I really don't have a very strong interest in restoring it myself but just hate to see it destroyed. It was running when I bought it but has two side windows broke and the reverse gear I think is out of place so the transaxle will need work. Some bright ninny in the past took all the seat belts out and tossed them too! It's a fuel injected manual transmission car in dark green.


Niiice!
I have not had time to give a complete answer to your other question you posted yesterday.....its a bit involved.

The four speed cars are actually pretty rare in North America. In fact....a 1970 is exceedingly rare. It would only be a grey market or Canada vehicle. These were not imported to the US until 1971 model year.

They are worthwhile to drive but you do have to do the basic to them.

Is the reverse gear not going into gear.....or does it grind?. Typically its one of several items....the shift coupler in the rear is worn out, the tail cone bushing is worn out or the adjustment to the reverze alider has been messed with. The last one can be adjusted with the trans and engine in the car....and the oil drained snd the lower plate off. Ray
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

My nephew was the last one to drive it but if I recall correctly it sounded as though the reverse had slipped off and dropped down. Reverse is missing altogether and there are rattling noises going forward. Had that happen on a bus once.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
My nephew was the last one to drive it but if I recall correctly it sounded as though the reverse had slipped off and dropped down. Reverse is missing altogether and there are rattling noises going forward. Had that happen on a bus once.


Its fixable if you do not drive it any further. As far as whats happening inside....these transmissions only have some minor similarities to late bus in a few parts. The transmission design is totally alien from any other aircooled models.

What has happened is either your shift linkage is way off.....or the reverse idler gear shift fork has come loose or slipped on its shaft. Either way it can be checked or wkrked on with the trans still in the car.

Its worth twking the trans out and doing a few things before damage gets worse. Ray
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

Don't worry about it being driven any time soon. It hasn't been driven for about 20 years now and won't be until it's fixed and that won't be anytime soon as I have a number of projects ahead of it.

In fact so many other projects that I would part with it as is, quite reasonably priced, if I knew someone would bring it back to it's former glory. If not than it can sit and wait.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Don't worry about it being driven any time soon. It hasn't been driven for about 20 years now and won't be until it's fixed and that won't be anytime soon as I have a number of projects ahead of it.

In fact so many other projects that I would part with it as is, quite reasonably priced, if I knew someone would bring it back to it's former glory. If not than it can sit and wait.



Hmmmm....not like i dont have my hands full.....but my car should get at least to paint shop stage in about 1 year. I will put a pin in your map location.

If i get my car to the stage where ai can,be sure kts not only stable....I can be sire it will be finished......if you have not begun the car I may make an offer if I have any money. Ray
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19super73
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Don't worry about it being driven any time soon. It hasn't been driven for about 20 years now and won't be until it's fixed and that won't be anytime soon as I have a number of projects ahead of it.

In fact so many other projects that I would part with it as is, quite reasonably priced, if I knew someone would bring it back to it's former glory. If not than it can sit and wait.


Whereabouts are you in Canada? I'm near Calgary and have a 1970 Euro spec Variant as one of my parts donors. Only one of them is an auto, the other three are standards. If you need parts, you can hit me up.
_________________
1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
1984 Vanagon
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: A 411/412 parts rant for owners (but a nice one) Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Whereabouts are you in Canada? I'm near Calgary and have a 1970 Euro spec Variant as one of my parts donors. Only one of them is an auto, the other three are standards. If you need parts, you can hit me up.

I'm at Coronation, about 3.5 hours to the north and east. Yes I will be needing a passenger side door glass, seat belts and possibly a cylinder head.
Thanks Merv.

PS I am stripping a '73 Wesfalia for parts if you need anything.
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