Side Trim Question

[ClassicCamper]

I was able to pick up a tube of molding from a local VW show. I'm getting my 412 painted and trying to find the correct width of the original side trim. (Goes around the middle of the doors, etc) The tube I got has these in it:

Not sure which width is correct. Also, the last painter pinstriped over the trim clip holes, so I'll need clips as well.

Thanks in advance for your advice. - Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

The smaller strips on the bottom are correct. The top larger one 3 looks similar to what goes on the lower rockers....but looks slightly narrow. It may be a type 3 profile.

Late Type 3 and type 4 used the same waistline trim profile. They use the same clip. Check at ISP west.

Also.....look at this carefully. If the holes in your fenders are actually still there....ok. if they were just painted over....ok....poke them out.

Personally....I am welding mine up and will be adhering trim with high strength adhesive. In the long run its less problematic with trim coming loose and clips needing to be replaced.

I say this because I assume you are keeping this car longterm. The original clips are rust magnets...especially in the rear quarter panel areas. They leak inside especially because vibrations and a few dents here and there cause alignment issues.

Also...the biggest problem is that these strips are not sealed to the body. The trim is hollow....and collects every manner of dirt and fine leaves. The dirt and crud stay wet inside the trim clips and collects around the clips. The little red seals do not seal perfectly and or bad with age.....and you need to pressure wash the trim strips and would be stunned at how much crud washes out from underneath. This pressure washijg also leaks past the seals.

Yes....you can get around this to a large degree by installing the trim clips and carefully sealing with silicone. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks Ray- when I took off the lower, wider trim on the car, it was filled with very fine road dust, rocks, etc.. I can see how these would be rust magnets. I do plan on keeping this car for the long-haul. I hope the car feels the same about me.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

I thought I requested this before, as I'm having a deja vu moment.

I'm trying to find the correct/best trim clips for the following:

1) VW logo on hood. (Need cups/clips that secure the round Vw enblem to the hood.

2) The 'VW 412' logo on the lift gate.



Getting close,
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Let me see what I can find. The little elastomer cups or grippers that hold on the rear badges....I have gotten from West Coast Metric in the past. Ray

[KTPhil]

On other models and over the years, there are different diameter pins on the badges. This means the cups/grippers came in different sizes. Maybe they got it together for the Type 4, but I don't know, so beware.

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll let you know what I find out.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

OK.....for the type 4..these are the part numbers for the little elastomer gripper cups.

Believe it or not there is no part # for the gripper cups that hold the rear tailgate and hood "VW 411 or 412" badges....but I have found that they are very nearly identical to the same part that holds on the rear quarter vent grate on the 411 and 412 sedans....that little louver behind the rear quarter window.

That part # is 411 819 451
And....it is very nearly identical to the part that holds on the front hood VW logo badges.
That part # is 113 853 615

This is going from memory and I may be able to check later today....but the difference between these two seals is that...as KTPhil mentioned...one has a little tighter ID than the other...which can work perfectly with very little mods...but the real difference is that one has a very slightly larger OD than the other. I have been able to make the same 113 853 615 part # work for all of them on my 412 in the past.

In fact....the memory just came back.....the 411 819 451...which is used for the rear quarter louver trim on 411/412 sedans....has a smaller OD. Using the 113 853 615 cups for the quarter window louvers means that you need to push the little cups into the body very hard with a wooden dowel. Since this makes the ID close up a little...also applying the lover means you need to carefully push quite hard to get the louver to stick on flush.

Likewise....trying to use the 113 853 615 for the rear deck badge...I found that the holes in the lid were a little loose....but simply applying a little RTV as an adhesive and letting it dry...made them function perfectly well.

Over the years these parts have been made variously of nylon 6 (the yellowish ones that snap of and crumble when you try to remove them)....and of polyethylene from WCM (which had the most variation from batch to batch....and basic black polypropylene or similar.

It would be great if someone just made them from rubber so they had some flexibility.

So with care the 113 853 615 can function in all locations.

And from this list of offerings...you can see the general range from shitty to good these parts range in reproductions.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/VW-Hood-Emblem-Seals-Clamps-Set-113-853-615-p/113-853-615-3.htm

https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/113853615/badge-clip/

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C16-113-615

The one from Airhead are theg closest to what the originals looked like...and what MCM sold at one time...

http://www.airheadparts.com/Hood-Emblem-ClampSeal-Set3/item/113-853-615%20ST3

https://www.appletreeauto.com/EMBLEM-SEAL-and-RETAINER/

And the winner is:

NOS in the box of 100 in the Samba Classifieds

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=783100

For the record...these are the front VW logo badges used on the 411/412

113 853 601 B to Chassis # 419 100 000 (‘68 and ‘69 411)
411 853 601 from chassis # 410 2000 001 (the 411 front wing badge)
411 853 601 from Chassis # 413 2000 001 (late 1972 early 412 and 1973 and on 412)

These are the rear script badge part #'s:

“Automatic” 411 853 675
“VW 411 L” 411 853 687
To chassis # 412 2100 000
For models: 411. 412, 421, 422, 461, 462

“VW 411 LE” 411 853 687 A
To Chassis # 412 2100 000
For models: 022: 411, 412, 421, 422, 461, 462

“VW 412 L” 411 853 687 B
From Chassis # 413 2000 001
For models: 411, 412. 421, 422, 461, 462

“VW 412 LE” 411 853 687 C
From Chassis # 413 2000 001
For models: 022: 411, 412, 421, 422, 461, 462

“VW 411” 415 853 687
To Chassis # 412 2100 000
For models: 415, 416, 425, 426, 465, 466

“VW 411 E” 415 853 687 A
To/From Chassis # ? (no listing so this is the first cars)
For models: 415, 416, 425, 426, 465, 466

“VW 412” 415 853 687 B
From chassis # 413 2000 001
For models: 415, 416, 425, 426, 465, 466

“VW 412 E” 415 853 687 C
From chassis # 413 2000 001
For models # 022: 415, 416, 425, 426, 465, 466

“Variant” 361 853 689 A
From Chassis # ? (original models)
For models: 461 through 466

So...if I have not posted these before, this is how you tell what car you have:

So...ClassicCamper....you have:

A left hand drive variant which makes it a 461` which is the "L" variant because all cars in the US were "L" models. Because of this there was no need to differentiate. It was rare to see an "L" badged car in the US unless it was gray market import.

And technically you have a 412 LE because its fuel injected.

But for the same reasons...that virtually all 411 and 412 in the US were luxury and injected ("LE" models") it would be rare to find an LE script on one.

See here in this thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464596

And....you have a 022:3 ...which is variant engine with Automatic

So from the badge list...this is most probably the badge yours had:

VW 412” 415 853 687 B
From chassis # 413 2000 001
For models: 415, 416, 425, 426, 465, 466

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volkswagen-VW-412-Script-Emblem-415-853-687-B-/291397333152

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VOLKSWAGEN-VW-412-...2022485792

And there are about one dozen script badges in the Samba classifieds right now

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...412+script

Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Interesting stuff. The post about the different T4 trim packages was a cool read. Now I feel like I'm stylin' with th carpeted trunk, 'wall to wall' interior carpet, a clock and wider back rest to name a few. I didn't realize there was a stripped down model available outside the US.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

I was combing through the site and was hoping to find some pictures as to how the side/belt line trim appears on the car.

I have the clips and trim, but I'm going to have to cut the trim at the ends. So, I guess what I'm saying is I need some detailed, close-up pics of the trim, most importantly the ends, so I can cut and fade it into the car correctly.

Any help would be appreciated.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

In your original picture showing the two trim pieces. ...the small lne of course is the beltline trim....goes about waist high.

The piece of trim in that picture is the "inner" end shape of any given tfim shape. There are only two end treatments.

1. What i call thumbnail shaped in your picture......which goes ......starting at the front fender and moving toward the rear......
Thumbnail shape at the rear edge of the front fender
Opposing thunbnail shape at the leading edge of the door.....
Thumbnail shape at the trailing edge of the door
Opposing thumbnail shape at the leading edge of the rear fender.

These thumbnail shaped ends have a slight bevel at the end so that when the door is,open they do not smash into each other.

The other shape is the "bullet" or oval shape. You will have one on the leading end of the front fender,and on the trailing end of the rear fender.

Ray

[Lars S]

You can cut the end to match the thumbnail shape....with some practise it will look better than these pics shows.


Lars S

_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[raygreenwood]

Perfect! Thanks Lars!......thats what I was trying ot explain.
The bevel allows areas of the trim strip that have to get close to each other to fit without a large gap.

Thinking about this...there may be a third end shape.

The bevel that Lars is showing is definately the door gap to front fender bevel. I know that the factory lead edge of the front fender and trail edge of the back fender were bullet shaped ends.....more bullet shaped than what is in your original picture in this thread.

That thumbnail shape may go on the lead edge of the rear fender near the door.

You might also did around in the type 3 section as they used the same cross section trim. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Apologies---- I can't tell what end goes where and how to trim the strips. Can someone shoot over a few pics of the trim ends on the car? When I got the car, it had no belt line trim.

I'm much better with a visual on the car.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks Ray -- that would be great. If I have some trim left, I'll happily donate it to the T4 cause.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[Lars S]

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks very much this is a lot of help! I'll post pictures as I attempt to do this.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Peeeeeerrrfffect!
Ray

[Pepperbilly]

Looking to replace all my upper trim. Just way too many bad dents. So it has been suggested using late type 3 trim. My 412 wagon trim measures as follows...

Front fender is 48 1/2” long
Door is 45” long
Rear is 61” long

The long piece is what worries me. Is the type 3 rear trim long enough? Has anybody used the ISP West pieces?

Bill