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bikesndbugs Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2015 Posts: 218 Location: san diego
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:14 pm Post subject: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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SO what do you guys think is a better option for a ball joint car.
I have arms and spindles for a link pin
thing beams go for around 300-400 from drum to drum
add in adjusters and assume the ball joints need to be replaced
the adapter from bugzyla is 300
plus link pins and king pins and bushings that starts to get pricey
ive heard thing beam is stronger but once upgrades start lp/kp wins
stock vs stock what has more travel
so whats the better option
lp has the longer arm option but doesn't that usually require an extended front end and that requires tube front end and if that ever happens probably want to use a standard lp beam because of caster issue with the adapter beam
i would assume they would cost about the same considering i have lp parts already |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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Stock VW beams, whether link pin or ball joint, are designed with the tubes spaced closer together than the joints at the spindle end of the arms. This induces caster change as the suspension moves up and down.
Using a Bugzilla conversion beam with link pin arms and spindles makes the trailing arms nearly parallel. Thus, caster remains nearly constant throughout travel. This is a GOOD thing for an offroad car. I've built custom beams for offroad race cars with wide beam tube spacing. The customers have always been VERY happy after. I used to work with the guy who had prepped the ISS single seat race buggy for Malcolm Smith and Bud Feldkamp that DOMINATED offroad racing in the late 70s. He built himself a Baja with link pin front suspension on ball joint spacing. It worked wonderful and was featured in Hot VWs before it was stolen.
So you have no need to be concerned about
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caster issue with the adapter beam |
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Ball joint spindles from 1968-on, including Thing lifted spindles, have stouter shafts than link pin stock spindles. Link pin "Combo Link" spindles have stouter shanks still.
Ball joint front ends work pretty damned well offroad, in spite of their shorter travel. Watch videos of ball joint Class 11 or Class 9 racers.
But I have 10.25" of travel in my linkpin Baja with the original 1958 beam (with adjusters and tubular shock towers equivalent to 8" towers), arms, spindles (beefed), etc. I get this with 8" travel shocks on the stock lower mounts. The longer travel IS nice!
If I had a ball joint Bug to prep for offroad, I would opt for the link pin conversion.
Your choice. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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bikesndbugs Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2015 Posts: 218 Location: san diego
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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ive also seen bajas be awkwardly tall up front because of a thing beam
ill do stock bug bj for now untill ive got money for stuff |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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I like conversion beams alot also if you are going to put the money into a link pin conversion. The Thing spring pack is already about 20% more stiff than a stock T-1 and I would not use adjusters as you would with a stock T-1 or link pin. I have Things installed both with IRS and with setup swingaxles using 29" tall tires and I don't think it looks too high, but if you were cranking up adjusters on a already almost 3" lift I could see why that would look too high up front. Just use good shocks with the stock shock bumpers installed on them, I have always used Bilstein. The one item you should do with the stock setup though is run limit straps or hard stops to limit extension so it does not rely on the shock to limit it. I am getting beyond stock travel but I am running cage mounted longer shocks, hard stops on both compression and extension, and I have modified German OEM Spec Thing ball joints. I am using thing spring packs with sway a way inserts. German OEM spec ball joints can take the abuse for sure. _________________ HRE in Westerville,Ohio
Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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bikesndbugs Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2015 Posts: 218 Location: san diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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so the conversion beam is link pin with ball joint spacing what if lets say someone put link pin adjusters on a ball joint beam wouldnt that be a simpler way rather than changing spacing or are ball joint and link pin tubing different sizes. Then of course you have the weak ball joint shock tower |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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The shanks of the trailing arms are different sizes, especially on the bottom arms.
If you machined your own bushings out of urethane or delrin you could theoretically install link pin arms in ball joint beam. Plus of course the center adjusters for torsion leaf pack to fit into the link pin arms.
Or cut the arm off ball joint shanks and fabricate link pin arms on the ball joint shanks. Tweeds did that at one time, but wasn't making money at it and gave up on them.
Or just buy a conversion beam and install link pin parts... _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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bikesndbugs Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2015 Posts: 218 Location: san diego
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Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: Re: thing beam vs link pin conversion beam |
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ok makes sense i was just thinking it could have been a more simple way to make a type of conversion beam |
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