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Install a new engine, Add Value??
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Hello, I have an early 70's bus that runs great I am trying to sell and I noticed there is a bit of white smoke coming out of the engine area and my mechanic said I had either bad rings or bad heads. He thought it might not add value to the bus to get it fixed but I'm not sure. I came here to ask you all.
So the bus does run pretty good. This white smoke thing is a new problem. I'm not sure how old the engine is as I have only owned this for about 3 years. I do intend on selling and want to get the most I can for it. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Will adding a new engine or getting the engine overhauled add value to my price?

I'm EDITING this so the question for advice is more clear, in case some of you don't understand what I'm asking... Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to get all the information out...

Here: Bad luck got me. The mechanic at the local Bug shop says there is no need for a new engine, just an overhaul is needed. I'm getting a few opinions as well. I do think having the problem repaired or replaced would get the best return. NO I AM NOT LOOKING TO GET RICH. I bought this bus for $10,500 3 years ago and immediately dropped about $2k into it to fix the problems that showed up about 2 months after I bought it. So yeah I had some bad luck with this bus. I'm NOT trying to do the same to the next buyer.

To explain this better: I would like to "hopefully get at least $14k for this bus. I did a lot of inside work on it (meaning interior stuff) as well as installing a new starter, a rebuilt carb, fixed the distributor (all 3 went out on me in the first 2 months of owning her). I also took care of the 4000 strong ant colony that had somehow burrowed deep into the innards of the Bus before I got it.

What I would do if I didn't repair/replace the engine is inform the next buyer of the problem. I wouldn't want the buyer to step into a situation like I did where I probably overpaid for my bus. So I'm not being cheap or sketchy, I'm just trying to figure out what the BEST possible way for me to do this is. It seems like getting the issue repaired/replaced is the best way to go, then hopefully sell the pants off this bus and maybe (MAYBE) be able to recoup some of my dignity and a little of the $$ I spent on her.

This isn't the first VW I've owned and it won't be the last...


Last edited by Roaring Cow on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

As a smoker you are selling a fix-it-upper. Rebuilding the engine now will probably not give you the full cost back unless the rest of the bus is in excellent shape. Is it possible you overfilled it with oil, or that gasoline is leaking into the engine case?
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obnoxiousblue
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Sell it as is.
From a buyers perspective, I would rather buy a car knowing I had to make a repair - and feel confident about that repair - than buy it from a seller who may have done a quick, incomplete, or less than thorough job to make a quick easy sale.
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!


Ok, great. from what I've seen on the classifieds and ebay sellers, I'm thinking I could pull about $14-$18k for my bus in its current condition. Will the engine, in it's current condition (having some noticeable white smoke coming out) lower what I could potentially get? I really don't want to get any lower than $14k for this, but I see sales of buses that look in bad shape selling from $15-$20k
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mechanicjay
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

I would willing to pay quite a bit more for a vehicle with a solid engine vs. one that is in clear need of a rebuild. The question is: Is the "more" someone is willing to pay more than it cost you to fix? I don't know, but you'll probably be dealing with people looking for a project vs. people looking for a driver, which could influence what they're willing to pay in a significant way.

In short, I have no idea, but I'd wrestle the above before I make a decision.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Roaring Cow wrote:
Randy in Maine wrote:
Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!


Ok, great. from what I've seen on the classifieds and ebay sellers, I'm thinking I could pull about $14-$18k for my bus in its current condition. Will the engine, in it's current condition (having some noticeable white smoke coming out) lower what I could potentially get? I really don't want to get any lower than $14k for this, but I see sales of buses that look in bad shape selling from $15-$20k


you see buses advertised for that. Compare to these:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1970-VOLKSWAGEN-BUS--196318

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1972-VOLKSWAGEN-WESTFALIA-POP-UP-CAMPER-183899
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Roaring Cow wrote:
Randy in Maine wrote:
Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!


Ok, great. from what I've seen on the classifieds and ebay sellers, I'm thinking I could pull about $14-$18k for my bus in its current condition. Will the engine, in it's current condition (having some noticeable white smoke coming out) lower what I could potentially get? I really don't want to get any lower than $14k for this, but I see sales of buses that look in bad shape selling from $15-$20k


you see buses advertised for that. Compare to these:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1970-VOLKSWAGEN-BUS--196318

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1972-VOLKSWAGEN-WESTFALIA-POP-UP-CAMPER-183899


They look nice and clean. Mine isn't that clean, but it looks pretty good. I have to pick it up from the mech today or tomorrow, but was debating having a new engine installed. I think he quoted me around $3k for the engine.
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jtauxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

obnoxiousblue wrote:
Sell it as is.
From a buyers perspective, I would rather buy a car knowing I had to make a repair - and feel confident about that repair - than buy it from a seller who may have done a quick, incomplete, or less than thorough job to make a quick easy sale.

^This. And, with an engine that needs repair or replacement, I would not pay over $10k for a bus unless it was immaculate.
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1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus
, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Roaring Cow wrote:
Randy in Maine wrote:
Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!


Ok, great. from what I've seen on the classifieds and ebay sellers, I'm thinking I could pull about $14-$18k for my bus in its current condition. Will the engine, in it's current condition (having some noticeable white smoke coming out) lower what I could potentially get? I really don't want to get any lower than $14k for this, but I see sales of buses that look in bad shape selling from $15-$20k


Then you keep it. Ad prices don't reflect selling prices. Period,
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

when did it start smoking? Gradually or suddenly? Only when starting up, when leaving stop signs, etc.
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

jtauxe wrote:
obnoxiousblue wrote:
Sell it as is.
From a buyers perspective, I would rather buy a car knowing I had to make a repair - and feel confident about that repair - than buy it from a seller who may have done a quick, incomplete, or less than thorough job to make a quick easy sale.

^This. And, with an engine that needs repair or replacement, I would not pay over $10k for a bus unless it was immaculate.


So I won't sell it to you then...
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
when did it start smoking? Gradually or suddenly? Only when starting up, when leaving stop signs, etc.


It started recently, but I'm not here to solve that. I've got it figured out. Just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me to repair it before I sell it.
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Roaring Cow wrote:
Randy in Maine wrote:
Some additional value but less than you paid for a good engine.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A GEX ENGINE!


Ok, great. from what I've seen on the classifieds and ebay sellers, I'm thinking I could pull about $14-$18k for my bus in its current condition. Will the engine, in it's current condition (having some noticeable white smoke coming out) lower what I could potentially get? I really don't want to get any lower than $14k for this, but I see sales of buses that look in bad shape selling from $15-$20k


Then you keep it. Ad prices don't reflect selling prices. Period,


I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't want to keep it, I'm trying to sell it. You just sound angry.
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mechanicjay
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't want to keep it, I'm trying to sell it. You just sound angry.


He means people can ask anything they want, it's the price they get that determines what it's worth.

Put another way, something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

When trying to comp stuff, you see all sorts of crazy asks out there. I've found using ebay advanced search to show completed auctions and sales to be quite informative as to the true market value of an item.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

White smoke can be a sign of a valve guide moving in the head. Don't know why this makes for white smoke verses blue, but it does.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Roaring Cow wrote:
jtauxe wrote:
obnoxiousblue wrote:
Sell it as is.
From a buyers perspective, I would rather buy a car knowing I had to make a repair - and feel confident about that repair - than buy it from a seller who may have done a quick, incomplete, or less than thorough job to make a quick easy sale.

^This. And, with an engine that needs repair or replacement, I would not pay over $10k for a bus unless it was immaculate.

So I won't sell it to you then...

That was not the point. My point was that you're being unrealistic. I sell working, reliable buses without issues for $10k or even less. The key word in that sentence is "sell".
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1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus
, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Roaring Cow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Yeah I get what you mean by selling buses, I was making a joke... I know there are some who say buses aren't worth that much unless they are immaculate. The point of my post is really about selling my bus as is vs completely overhauling the engine. It doesn't matter what the value of the bus is. It could be worth $5k or $20k. That's not the point. I consciously do not want to sell a bus that has engine problems unless the buyer knew that going into the purchase (which I would disclose) I'd rather get it fixed, but I also don't want to take a loss on it. So I was just trying to gather opinion from some of you. I want to maximize my profit when I sell this so I am simply trying to find out if it's worth the cost of the repair to get more from it advertising it as a newly rebuilt engine.


As far as the smoke is concerned, I'm either having the engine rebuilt here shortly or I'll put a new engine in.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

If the question is can you get rich by putting a new engine in it - no. You will be lucky to get all your money out of it.

Here are some more to compare to

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1978-VOLKSWAGEN-TRANSPORTER-CUSTOM-BUS-132961

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1978-VOLKSWAGEN-BAY-WINDOW-MICRO-BUS-157908

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1978-VOLKSWAGEN-BUS-CUSTOM-BAY-WINDOW-133565
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Install a new engine, Add Value?? Reply with quote

Roaring Cow wrote:
Yeah I get what you mean by selling buses, I was making a joke... I know there are some who say buses aren't worth that much unless they are immaculate. The point of my post is really about selling my bus as is vs completely overhauling the engine. It doesn't matter what the value of the bus is. It could be worth $5k or $20k. That's not the point. I consciously do not want to sell a bus that has engine problems unless the buyer knew that going into the purchase (which I would disclose) I'd rather get it fixed, but I also don't want to take a loss on it. So I was just trying to gather opinion from some of you. I want to maximize my profit when I sell this so I am simply trying to find out if it's worth the cost of the repair to get more from it advertising it as a newly rebuilt engine.

Gotcha. Like selling a house with messed up carpet. I'm inclined to sell it (or buy it) with the bad carpet, and let the buyer fix it to his/her liking. Same for the engine, unless you have a known engine rebuilder who will provide spec sheets and a warranty and all.
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"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus
, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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