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87 Vanagon running issue
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NeverPaidOff
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

I run a 1987 Vanagon with a Gowesty rebuilt engine installed 50788 miles ago.

My issue may be fixed, but for the moment I'll hold my optimism in check. I am posting this mostly as a public interest thing. I've read a lot of posts here during my troubleshooting, which have been helpful.

I've been chasing a poorly running/non-running issue for the last three weeks or so. My Westy started dying on me on the road. When this happened I noticed, while trying to get it started again, that I didn't hear the fuel pump. After a few tries I'd hear the pump do its two second dance and I'd get the van running enough to limp home after a few more die-and-tries.

At that point I thought I might have a bad fuel pump, or maybe something stuck in the rollers. I also checked my fuel pump relay by swapping it with the digi relay (not a 100% reliable test i suppose). Checking those relays meant opening the deck lid of course.

With the deck lid open and the key on I realized I could hear some funky buzzing and clicking back there. With the key left on and standing at the engine bay I heard both a weird rattling/clicking noise, and an electrical arcing noise. I figured out by unplugging things that the noises were from my distributor (well, coil) randomly firing and my injectors randomly opening and closing rapidly. There were not synchronized in their chaos.

This would happen for less than a minute each time and when it stopped, the fuel pump would pressurize the lines for two seconds. After a while the haywire clicking and arcing would happen again for a bit, stop, and the fuel pump would again run for two seconds.
Starting the engine, which took several revolutions, it would run roughly, stinking of gas because the injectors had been so busy filling the cylinders, and then die again. At that point I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know why this was happening. What would make the ignition coil and injectors starting activating like that? I didn't like to think I might have a dying ECU. So...

I ordered parts and replaced:
spark plugs
spark plug and coil wires
hall sensor
distributor cap and rotor
fuel filter
air filter
both belts because they were looking a bit hairy

After all this robust parts replacing.... it was still doing the clicking and buzzing and arcing. I was disappointed. Then I read, in a post, "did you check your grounds?". So I removed and cleaned the grounds in the engine bay, the two under the relay box and the one on the left head.

Someone else advised checking the ignition switch. I unplugged my ignition switch and tested it with a MM. All contacts were stable in the two key positions. And I got in some contortionist practice. So the switch is good. Hmmf.

I decided to look at my ECU as well, since there is a ground connection there too. I lifted the box up and out and removed, cleaned, and re-seated that ground. While I had it out like that, I unplugged the ECU (with power off) and took it off its housing. Since I'd never actually looked at it, I opened the ECU to inspect the pcbs. I didn't see anything obviously wrong so I buttoned it all back up, plugged it back in and remounted it to the firewall.

Did I mention my optimism? It's what makes me keep trying. I checked all connections and hoses in the engine bay and went back to the drivers seat, put the key in and turned it on. The fuel pump primed immediately. I turned it off and back on again several times with a clean pump prime noise each time.
Hopeful, I went back to my engine bay to make sure there were no errant tools or rags to fall into it, back to the key and tried again, this time cranking it. It started right up and ran more or less stably. It smelled of rich running only briefly, until excess fuel in the cylinders burned off. I let it run for a couple of minutes, revving it and listening to it. Apart from a lifter tick and a high idle I've been chasing for months, it seemed normal, and didn't die.

I waited a while and tried again. It took a few more cranks to get it going, and idle was still funky, but it runs. So, what fixed it (if it's fixed)? Grounds? ECU unplug and re-seat? Ignition switch unplug and re-seat?

I'll come back to this thread with an update after more running tests.
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NeverPaidOff
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

I tried starting it today and after all I have done, the problem remains. Does anyone have any guesses what would make the computer start randomly opening and closing, and randomly firing the coil?
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sciroccojim
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

I've got nothing to add to this right now, except the suggestion that you check/change your oil. Some gas may have pushed its way past the rings by now and is sitting in your crankcase.
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Merian
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

isn't there a special magic harness for the Hall Sensor?

when you replaced the hall sensor did you also replace that?


repl. O2 sensor with full harness?
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NeverPaidOff
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

To recap: The specific issue I have been having, intermittently, is when the key is turned on, without cranking, the coil will randomly and erratically spark, and the injectors will randomly and erratically open and close rapidly.

This would seem to point to a hall sensor problem since that's what sends a signal to the ECU to fire those components at the right time.

I did some more testing today, removing the ECU plug and following the Bentley wiring diagrams.

I had replaced the hall sensor. It did not come with a new harness. Though the existing harness plug boot is torn, the plastic plug itself isn't cracked and the contacts in it look shiny. Resistance tests between the hall sensor plug and the ECU plug showed solid connections.

Tested the voltage to the ECU when the key is on and got 12 volts.

After these checks and plugging everything back in again, It started up right away, with no apparent electrical trouble.

I hadn't thought about all the random injector activity sending fuel into the crankcase, but I had an oil change planned anyway and took care of that, filter and all. I really need to get a proper funnel dedicated to that purpose.

I plan to go out throughout the day and turn the key on to see if this problem happens more. If it does I'll remove all the injector wires and plug them in one at a time to see if they're all clicking, or if it's limited to one or two. I get the feeling it's all of them. The sound always seemed centered on the engine... in stereo, so to speak.
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Drelante
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon running issue Reply with quote

Results?
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