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Worst Type4 ever seen...
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:45 am    Post subject: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/152128131271?_trksid=p2056016.l4276&_mwBanner=1
They think it M A Y have been a fastback...


Lars S

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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
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Last edited by Lars S on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Wow!......should I assume that was pulled out of a lake? Thanks for the pics!
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

I just had to make a post of anything today...anybody noted that posts in this forum comes in shoals? Lots of posts during a few days followed by some days of silence...

Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Lars S wrote:
I just had to make a post of anything today...anybody noted that posts in this forum comes in shoals? Lots of posts during a few days followed by some days of silence...

Lars S


Yes.....I have noted that. Its kind of different...I perceive....with "serious" type 4 owners.

I will try to say this right so bear with me:

I say serious owners...because we have both types. You see every once in a while that someone new acquires a type 4.
If its just a casual thing meaning......its just the next vw project for them...or they got it cheap....or they just wanted to try something different.....and they do not get that with these cars being somewhat rare and parts being quite rare....that these are not just a car that you can slap together quick....but parts all over the place for.......or most importantly....cars that you can get in a hurry with because of all of the above.

These "casual" owners....for the most part.....don't stay around here long. The project car fairly quickly demonstrates how difficult it is to get to normal levels of restoration.....or that they are very hard to highly customize....or and this is most common....the type 4 is not something you can pick up for $500...slap together with a pile of cheap parts from CIP1...and be at the next show driving and showing off in a month. Or be down on the strip cruising with in two weeks.

When the casual owner sees these difficulties they usually unload the car pretty quick.

You see a lot of action on the other forums because of :

A. The sheer number of owners

B. A lot of the owners in the other forums are somewhat like the casual ones i listed....into the lifestyle and customizing...and going to the VW show circuit. They are constantly working on their rides to make the next show...so they have a lot to share. Lost of discussion about parts and what works.

Because so much has to be fabricated or located...the type 4 owners progress is usually documented as a series of sub-assembly projects that take more time in between.

To fill a couple of these blank shoals...I have a couple more how to's coming. Should have the Caliper rebuild in the next 24 hours. Ray
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

In Seattle I am ALWAYS the only Type 4 at the big show in July. Thousands of bugs and buses and every other kind of VW...and moi. They lump me in with the Type 3s for the contest, but I've never won a thing. Pretty lonely much of the time...
In contrast, when Sparkie's previous owner took her to shows she won all the time. Her father told me " maybe the fact that Julie was a pretty blonde had something to do with all those trophies..." I think he was onto something.
Well I'm not so bad looking myself, but I'm no pretty blonde lady!
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Just wondered-----what makes you think that's a Type 4 or even a VW ha ha? I can't figure out how it got in that condition.

Also these are interesting comments about Type 4 owners, and their cars. I'm the serious owner, and have had mine since new. The sales receipt is in the glove compartment.

Also I have been cast aside in my own local club, and classified as "just a glorified type 3" quote. So they don't see my car at any of their shows or events anymore. Can't get it thru their heads it's a unique and different VW air cooled model. In fact it is the last VW Air Cooled model. When I say that I get remarks like "how can you say that when they have been making bugs as late as late as 78 etc." You just can't fix stupid.

Anyhow owning a Type 4 is fun and interesting, and I appreciate and enjoy all of you on this forum Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Just wondered-----what makes you think that's a Type 4 or even a VW ha ha? I can't figure out how it got in that condition.

Also these are interesting comments about Type 4 owners, and their cars. I'm the serious owner, and have had mine since new. The sales receipt is in the glove compartment.

Also I have been cast aside in my own local club, and classified as "just a glorified type 3" quote. So they don't see my car at any of their shows or events anymore. Can't get it thru their heads it's a unique and different VW air cooled model. In fact it is the last VW Air Cooled model. When I say that I get remarks like "how can you say that when they have been making bugs as late as late as 78 etc." You just can't fix stupid.

Anyhow owning a Type 4 is fun and interesting, and I appreciate and enjoy all of you on this forum Bob


Its funny.....looking at that poor wreck....any other VW owners would not immediately identify it as a VW...unless they definitely looked at whats left of the engine in the rear or found something with a VW logo on it.....primarily because it has no front or rear beam like a "normal" air cooled VW.

That is one of the many groups of differences that your "type 3" guys would have to actually spend some time to look at to understand....that the type 4 is in no way....a glorified type 3.

They are just looking at your type 4 from general shape and size...and the fact that it has a crank mounted fan and D-jet injection...so it "must" just be a variant of the type 3......when in fact.....it has a totally different chassis construction method (no pan), a totally unrelated front and rear suspension (MacPherson struts front and trailing wishbones with coils rear)....and though it uses a 003 automatic....the 004 four speed is singularly unique among VW.

And...far too many people who work on type 1 based vehicles just have no knowledge of the fact that the type 4 engine so different than the type 1...and I dont just mean a crank mounted fan....that its a totally different engine design.

Back in the 80's and through the 90's ...one of the biggest problems getting parts for the suspension of type 4 cars....was the fact that the parts books in many of the chains...Pep Boys, Autozone, Autowize, Advance for sure.....were absolutely wrong. They were listing the 411/412 for many parts as the same as type 3.
The clutch, brake master cylinder, caliper and ball joints all listed type 3 parts.
Cannot tell you how many parts stores I went into in my travels in the mid to late 90's trying to find spare ball joints.....and asked for ball joints for a 1973 412......and the parts counter clerk opens the books and asks "upper or lower"......to which I would reply...".there are no uppers. Its Macpherson strut"....to which the total dumb asses would reply "no its not. The book says upper and lower"......and I would take them right out front and show them.....and the extra total dumb asses would reply..."then that must not be a 412...cause the book says its same as type 3" Rolling Eyes

Can't tell you how many master cylinders I have ordered....and waited 3-5 days....go in to pick up...and its a type three part in a box with type 4 parts #. Ray
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

stonecoldcars had his fasty running/driving in 2 months. He didn't tear apart the front end etc looking for non-existent problems. Wink He drove it first and all it needs currently is a new speedometer cable? It took an old,rusty CPU that someone had tried to paint silver from my stash as the last part to make it run good! I also sold him my best front bumper/side trim etc & happy to have helped get it done fast! He won the Type 3-4 Plaque at the Springfield German Auto Show on Father's Day. Cool

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

I can't believe it's not been posted yet...





























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Chris Walden
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Close inspection reveals what can only be type 4 seat bolsters. Also, the top of the dash looks very familiar.

Chris
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Just wondered-----what makes you think that's a Type 4 or even a VW ha ha? I can't figure out how it got in that condition.

Also these are interesting comments about Type 4 owners, and their cars. I'm the serious owner, and have had mine since new. The sales receipt is in the glove compartment.

Also I have been cast aside in my own local club, and classified as "just a glorified type 3" quote. So they don't see my car at any of their shows or events anymore. Can't get it thru their heads it's a unique and different VW air cooled model. In fact it is the last VW Air Cooled model. When I say that I get remarks like "how can you say that when they have been making bugs as late as late as 78 etc." You just can't fix stupid.

Anyhow owning a Type 4 is fun and interesting, and I appreciate and enjoy all of you on this forum Bob


Wow - you've had yours since new? What year and model? Any pictures to share?
I've had 411s and 412s since 1984 - five in total. I own three now. I remember I had the chance to buy a new 412 in 1974; the dealership was almost giving them away. I had my eyes on a camper bus, bright lime green ( it was the 70s ), but I didn't qualify for the loan for it. The sale man assured me I could have the 412 at a great price, but I famously said " nah, I wouldn't want one of those..."
Stupid me!
Anyway, I, too, am a serious owner. All three of mine are up and running and looking great and are garaged at night.
Here are my two 412s
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
stonecoldcars had his fasty running/driving in 2 months. He didn't tear apart the front end etc looking for non-existent problems. Wink He drove it first and all it needs currently is a new speedometer cable? It took an old,rusty CPU that someone had tried to paint silver from my stash as the last part to make it run good! I also sold him my best front bumper/side trim etc & happy to have helped get it done fast! He won the Type 3-4 Plaque at the Springfield German Auto Show on Father's Day. Cool

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Oh...anyone can do that. We all have.....and its absolutley idiotic with these cars.
Sure...take a type 4 car that has been sitting ...or not...but is over 40 years old....and simply oil it up and drive it.....what more can it possibly require?....ask the people who know nothing whatsoever about the front suspension wear issues of a type 4 vehicle. Rolling Eyes

In 90% of the cases I have seen where "new" owners do this.....one of two things happen...ALWAYS:

1. They dont get very many actual miles down the road before strange shimmies and noises happen and outright breakage of parts....usually the dead give away is poor handling and tire wear.

Then they find out they need parts....that are not available ANYWHERE.... that they likely could have salvaged...if they would simply have done the required diligence to replace specific bushings to keep from destroying parts that were still good attached to them.

2. The vast majority of the rest...who have not yet ground to a halt from disrepair due to neglect and age.....when you examine their car...what they think is normal is a car that drives and handles like a truckload of pipes and rocks.

The expression..."what?..it doesn't handle much different than my bug or type 3...isn't this normal?".... Rolling Eyes uh....no.

You can get away with any VW that has a front beam ...with just lubing it up and rolling on.....you can't do that very long on a 411 or 412.
Even if its been sitting on blocks for 42 years with "0" miles...there are several parts that were flat out defective in materials. The materials wont lst for 40 years even in a plastic bag.

They do not survive long with real driving without attention. ...and I am not talking about milk run/trailer queens that just get driven to the show. Ray
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Lahti411
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

I'd consider myself being a serious type 4 owner. When I first saw a 411 Variant in 2004, when I was searching for an intersting project car for my self, I just fell in love! I decided i'm going to learn everything about these cars and do the restoration by my self so i would understand how the cars' built and what needs to be done to make it driveable and safe. I read tons of Rays' posts at the STF and bought every manual for the car i could find.
If found my 411 Variant from a field from 500 km's where i live. I started from this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and ended with this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Current project that still requires a ton of work:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I've been buying parts whenever somebody's been selling:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

These cars are getting appreciated here in Finland and I've tried to share my knowledge with other enthusiasts who are restoring their cars.

By the way Lars, that car in the first post is definately a Variant. Check the rear seat back rest and the engines cooling air intake Smile
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Lahti411 wrote:

...

By the way Lars, that car in the first post is definately a Variant. Check the rear seat back rest and the engines cooling air intake Smile


Yes Lahti it is (or rather w a s) a Variant and by the rear lights it was a 70-72 model.
If this had been a 356 wreck it had been a pile of money...😊

Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Worst Type4 ever seen... Reply with quote

Very nice collection Lahti411!.....a bit larger than mine mostly in terms of chassis parts. But I am the same way. I collect what I can,when I can because its just not made and someone will eventually need it. Ray
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