Ghia Heating and Cooling

[SoCalJes]

I'm starting this thread aside from my build thread because it's something I am working on the side that I can add there once it's ready to install and as a sounding board to get feed back as I go along.

Do to the fact that my car's suspension and engine is heavily modified I could not use the original heat exchangers from the exhaust to heat the car. Not that I wanted to anyways but besides that the only thing I've heard about the stock heater is mainly that it just plain sucks for modern standards. I also have always planned on adding air conditioning after the engine is in but I always thought that at some point having a decent heater would be nice since this car will most likely end up in California at some point.

I was thinking about the heater thing when I got my idea. How do modern electric cars get AC and heat? Something like a 2016 Focus Electric.

Well the answer is actually very simple! They use a "Heat Pump" style air conditioner. A heat pump style air conditioner uses a reversing valve to swap the direction of the Freon between the evaporator and the condenser. So in one direction the heat is removed from the inside of the car and dissipated outside. When the reversing valve changes the direction, heat from the outside is transferred to the inside of the car.

The only difference is that instead of an electric compressor I would just use a standard belt driven compressor of the engine. So with the flic of a switch I can have cool or hot air just like a modern car?

Doesn't that make sense?
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Jesse
71 Ghia
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Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

[CiderGuy]

[crocteau]

In areas with mild winters I’ve lived comfortably in houses with heat pumps, but even with high R-value insulation, if you’re going all-electric very far north of the Mason-Dixon line you’ll probably be looking into supplementary heating coils. You don't need an engineer to calculate the thermal conductivity differences between a house and a car. Don't get me wrong, I think you’ll be cool, but I’m pretty sure that with a heat pump you won’t get as toasty as Bluedot (check out her posts), although you might be able to increase overall efficiency by running the cables for the add-on heating coils through your seats. Don't be deterred by nay-sayers; Bluedot surprised a few folks, and you may, too.

[SoCalJes]

Maybe I didn't explain it right. The heater is not electric.

The system is out of an electric car because electric cars do not have hot engine water to create the heat. The heat is created out of the air conditioning system. There is no electric heater element just the Freon gas/liquid for heating and cooling. You cant use the compressor from the electric car because it runs at like 40 volts but you can run a conventional belt driven compressor instead.

Turn on your AC at home and go outside and place your hand on the condenser and you can feel the heat that was removed from your house. If you use a reversing valve you would then feel cold air outside and heat inside.

Here is a example of the reversing valve in each direction. Again there is NO electric heater. So the size of your alternator has absolutely nothing to do with this since the compressor is belt driven of your engine.

In cool mode.

In heat mode.

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Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

[Starbucket]

There are gasoline heaters made for VW cars. They work so fast and good you will be driving around in the snow with the windows down wearing your bathing suit. You find them on here and on EBay. They mount in the trunk and use gas from the tank with their own fuel pump. Use a regular VW air conditioner but be aware they add a LOT of heat to the motor as they heat the incoming cooling air to the motor.

[SoCalJes]

[kman]

Go for it. Should work fine. Will reduce your engine power a bit. I found the heat exchangers to work much better than I expected. They certainly keep your feet warm. But having ready AC and heat would be cool (or hot). I would like to see the set up if someone got it working.

[SoCalJes]

[Starbucket]

[SoCalJes]

[sjbartnik]

[SoCalJes]

[Starbucket]

[SoCalJes]

Why would I care what anybody did in Mexico who knows when? I don't know what any of that has to do with what I'm doing! What is your point? If you don't like it move on plain and simple.
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Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

[sjbartnik]

Go for it, I think it will be interesting!

I don't think a heat pump system will give the amount of heat that would be necessary for those who live in northern U.S. climates but you living in Florida can probably get away with it.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[SoCalJes]

[kiwighia68]

[SoCalJes]

[Volfandt]

Great idea. Thought of it a couple yrs ago but someone mentioned the defrost cycle as something to work out and I never got out of the thinking about stage.

On paper it should work and work well. The defrost issue needs to be addressed. I live in the south and have a dual fuel heatpump which works very well until temps drop below 30f at which point the supplemental heat will kick on.
In cold outside temps, the outside coil will freeze up, necessitating the system to divert the hot Freon to the outside coils to defrost them. While this occurs the supplemental heat kicks on. Some systems will run the defrost mode as much as once an hr (dependant on outside temps, and the sophistication of the system), generally the cycle is once every couple hrs.

With the Ghia, we could divert heat from the heat exchangers (if equipped) or from oil cooler. In those cases it may not be necessary to divert the hot Freon and it could continue to provide heat to the cabin. Otherwise we will have to have a supplemental heat source while the Freon is diverted to defrost the outside coil.

In any case carry on.
Dave
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1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer....

[SoCalJes]