Turn signal / high beam relay ? ( anyone ? ) lol

[Richiee722]

Awesome site guys and I appologise for my first post being a plea for help.
I recently acquired a 1973 1200 which needs a bit of help.
I'm assuming it's a ground problem or something.
Basically, the 4 screws were missing so the arm was hanging out and couldn't be used properly.
I've tried to put some screws in , but as soon as I put a screw in, the main beam comes on ?
I think the whole stalk is live and when I put a screw in , it grounds on the column.
It might be worth mentioning that the horn isn't connected and the p/o has added a toggle switch.
I'm hopeful it's something simple , I'm just not sure what to do lol
Thanks in advance


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[Richiee722]

[Richiee722]

[Joel]

Your turnsignal switch is busted which is probably why the screws were missing
Tightening the screws down is causing the high beam contacts to touch.

See if the part number is still legible on it, those euro 1200 pov paks were built using older parts so even tho it's a 73 it probably uses s switch for a 71 or earlier
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[ashman40]

I agree with Joel. Could be a bad switch.

Look at the wires coming off the turn signal switch assembly. If you are pinching a wire under the turn signal switch you could easily be grounding it. The brown/white wire should be the one running to the dimmer relay "S" terminal. If this wire is being grounded the dimmer relay will remain ON and the high beams will be ON.

It is possible it is grounding INSIDE the switch body by the hold down screw. You might be able to work around the problem by wrapping the four screws with some insulating tape. This would prevent the switch from grounding thru the screws. You may also need to insulate the bottom of the turn signal switch where it contacts the steering column housing. This could get the switch working once more.

My non-US '75 Beetle had a '71 steering column. It only had a turn signal lever. The wipers were controlled by a knob on the dash. The steering wheel was the shallow two spoke (bus-style) wheel.
The tell tale ID would be it has the large brass ear(s) on the face of the switch to contact the ring on the steering wheel... like this:

... and it has loose wires for the turn signal switch assembly.

'72-later switches had the brass ears but the wires were held in plastic "trays" that snapped together with the wiper switch wiring/trays.

Post a pic of your turn signal switch.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Richiee722]

Hi guys , thanks for the responses.
I have a recipt for the signal arm which would confirm its less than 3 months old ( and it certainty looks brand new ).
It's the one with 2 brass ears as in your pic without the plug.
If I hold the switch in my hand it works perfect but as soon as any part of the top plate comes into contact with the column the high beams comes on.
I thought of the insulating tape idea just need to come up with a way to screw them in without it grounding .

[ashman40]

[Richiee722]

Thanks for the reply Ashman.
I just changed the turn signal switch and it's doing exactly the same thing on the new one ?
I've noticed that if I connect my test lamp up to the brown/white wire coming from the relay , it's lights up ? Surely that's not right.
Strange things are afoot cos the flasher relay has blown twice too ( immediately makes a buzzing and pops )
There's loads of p/o 's additions and alterations to sort so I think I'll have to become accustomed to the wiring diagrams a bit sharpish

[Joel]

Its been 17 years since I owned my 71 but from memory the highbeam had a constant ground and the switched ground.

I'll make a bet whoever installed the new one has the 2 wires around the wrong way.
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[STEAK_BUG72]

Ashman is the best

[STEAK_BUG72]

high beam relay is a "+12V" "signal" to latch relay and a "+12V" "signal" to reset (unlatch) the relay. Relay numbers are easily searched on this site.

Thanks

[STEAK_BUG72]

Meaning when you hit the high beam button, the high beam relay switches to high beam (and should stay there regardless of what else happens with the circuit untill......) when you hit the high beam button again and the relay switches back to the low beam. This explains why when you leave your headlights on "hi beam" when you shut your headlight off, they come back on with the high beams still on when you restart.

Thanks, OFY

[ashman40]

Here is Speedy Jim's diagram for the 4-prong dimmer relay.

You can see that the (71-later) dimmer relay is powered (12v+) from the headlight switch which is powered by the ignition switch X (black/yellow) circuit. So nothing works until the ignition is ON AND the headlight switch is in position2 (fully pulled out).
The earlier (pre-71) headlights were powered from the battery instead of the ignition switch so would work even when the ignition switch was OFF.

The acvw dimmer relay is a special type of relay called a "latching relay". Unlike many other relays which use a small current to control (ON/OFF) a large current flow, latching relays toggle the output path with a small current. The relay doesn't control the ON/OFF of the current flow it only controls the path the current takes. When the relay coil is energized the output path toggles and "latches" in place until the relay is next energized.

Once the dimmer relay is given power on terminal 56 the current flows thru the relay and powers one of the outputs (56a or F/56b) which lights up the high or low beams. The relay coil does not need to be active for the current to flow to the headlights.
The incoming current from the headlight switch also powers the relay coil which toggles the output path, but the relay coil needs to be grounded at the S terminal to activate/trigger/toggle. So it is a switched ground (headlight dimmer switch) that activates the relay coil and causes the output to toggle between 56a or F (56b).

Like Richiee722 did above, if you connect a test lamp to the S terminal (or the brown/white wire) the test lamp becomes the ground for the S terminal. Current flows thru the test lamp while it grounds the relay coil so the test lamp will light up and the relay will toggle the output path.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}