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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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air-h2o-air
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Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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fans need to be side by side, that is if you want to use both. 1 will over ride the other and most likely end up with less air flow that only 1 fan, if on both sides of core.
Fans will not push thru all those small holes as you think...you will have a dam effect and not move much air
If possible use both as sucking fans...and use a pressure switch on the hi side line to activate the fans...that way they only run when pressure is high...such as sitting in traffic(no air flow) or when heat absorption is great |
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| piledriver wrote: |
Goodyear barrier hose is ~$0.38-$0.44 a foot off Amazon, usually with free shipping.
You just have to by 25 foot rolls. |
Unless I am missing something, I could not find anything like this on Amazon. |
You're missing something: The part#s.
Had to go look.
And yes, it was a "Eureka" moment when I first found it.
Think I found the part# from O'Reillys website, they sell the Murray line.
http://www.amazon.com/Four-Seasons-55010-Refrigerant-Hose/dp/B000E0V4JC
#6 hose is 55006
#8 is 55008
#10 is 55010
etc.
They are 25' rolls, the provided dimensions are for the box they ship in.
It was all GoodYear Galaxy barrier hose, but may be made by Continental/Siemens etc.
Four Seasons probably buys it by the kilometer.
Yes, its disturbingly inexpensive, but its the exact hose you get on EBay by the foot for many times the cost.
134A systems use a trinary switch so the fans only run when the high side pressure gets over a threshold. Also provides underpressure and overpressure compressor cutoff, screws into the dryer. Control a relay with it.
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Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
Thanks air and Pile,
Went ahead and ordered the hose from amazon, saved over 2/3rds. Next question, I would like an evaporator fan with more output. Does anyone know of a place, that if I give them the dimensions, they can match it up with a newer unit?
Thanks again. |
The fans are sized according to the duct airflow they feed, forward curve fans cannot deal with a large mismatch.
You could probably fit a larger bodied fan but you'd have to add additional outlets somewhere.
I considered mounting the evap setup in the frunk sticking through the firewall (boxed in obviously) and installing the slick "hot rod" outlets directly in the dash, connected via flexiduct. May yet, would have saved modding the wiper setup for clearance. (only an issue on late cars to mount aftermarket evaps level, early cars it hangs much lower due to cars design)
I eliminated all the fresh air bits on my 73, if I want fresh air I can open a vent wing or window.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
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air-h2o-air
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2015
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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| dont use flex hose for your cool air ducting, IF you are seeking more air flow...that flex hose is restrictive |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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Been sneaking in a little work, Mostly getting the old condenser shroud to match the new condenser. First had to check for size.
Then cut the ends off to match.
Next I had to make a sharp U bend on the bottom so the shroud would seal flush, and give me more mounting locations.
Here's a better picture on how it will seal.
Then finally welding the end caps on. I "love" welding galvanized.
Have also changed the shroud to hold a larger fan, but, I'm trying to figure out how to mount the whole unit, so right now its sitting up under the front of the car. more to come...
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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Back from vacation, and got a little more done on the AC. I wanted to make sure that I had good air flow at a stop light so I went with a larger fan for the condenser.
The larger fan moves quite a bit more air, but I had to modify the shroud to get it to fit. If I lined it up with the condenser, then it would hit the gas tank, so I had to move it down a little and add an extension to the shroud. Here is the whole assembly mounted together. Notice the AC line, we’ll talk about that later.
With the unit mounted, it sticks down below the beam about 3/4", so it shouldn’t be a problem. I also wanted to use the “STOCK” mounting style, since it had side wings that attach from the body to the condenser. I figure that these wings would act like a scoop and help to force the captured air into the condenser, instead of spilling out the sides. On the driver’s side I used 3/4" aluminum angle to attach the condenser to the wings, however, on the passenger side I used 1-1/2” angle. I also had to cut some notches out of the wings and angle on the passenger side for the AC lines.
So here is the condenser unit, mounted into place.
Remember I mentioned an AC line that was mounted on the condenser? The company that originally made the condensers had some pretty elaborate tubing angles to allow for the connection of the AC lines.
However, the aftermarket condensers have fittings that just come straight out. So my options were cutting a hole in the car’s sheet metal, or making an adapter line, I went with the adapter line. However, because of room constraints, I couldn’t use a standard 90 degree adapter, but had to use a tight drop fitting.
So this is what I ended up with for my #8 connection. The #6 is no problem.
Since then I have also mounted the dryer, and I had to re-clock the compressor. I was afraid that the AC lines were too close to the exhaust. Right now, I am working on the wiring, and then I will mount the evaporator unit, and then start making hoses. It’s ironic; I am working in over 100 degree heat to install something that will make me cool. More to come.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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Well another 107 degree day today, but I'm getting closer. Got the wiring all done and the Evaporator in place.
Don't mind my mess, but it was kind of a head scratcher. At one time, my car had AC, so I thought I would just lift the unit in place, use some wood pieces to hold it up (seen in picture), and screw it in. However, of the five mounting points, only two would work. In fact the mounting point on the far passenger side was supposed to attach to the glove box (there were screw holes in mine).
There was no way that is was going to use the glove box as a mount. To the right of the glove box is a pocket for the hood hinge. I sacrificed a couple of drill bits (cut to 1" long) so the would fit in my angle drill. Determined a spot that would give the correct pull angle, and drilled a hole in the flange of the pocket. I then used heavy plumber's tape to use as my mount.
So that's were the nut went  . Then there were two mounts on each side of the steering column that didn't have anything to attach to. So once again, out came the plumber's tape and I strapped them together over the steering column. So now it is installed and held very sturdily.
So now I need to clean the garage a little, start making my hoses, and figure out a way to mount my gauges. It's taking longer then I thought, and I wouldn't be able to work and think clearly in the heat without this baby.
Even though it's well over 100 degrees, my garage stays about 90  .
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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At this point I have made and installed all of the #6 A/C lines. It's going a little slower then I thought, mainly because the barrier line has a larger OD then the reduced barrier line that had been installed previously. This means spending time with the dremel to open up the holes in the body and dash.
One area that concerned me was in making the final crimps on the various lines. What I didn't want to do, was to test fit a line, make clocking marks then pull the whole line out (especially the #8 & #10) that run from front to back. So I threw together a portable crimping vice.
I had the base of a HF chop saw that died, so I clamped the Beadlock crimper in it. However, as the crimper started to get difficult to turn, the whole assembly would try and lift out of the vice. Therefore, I drilled a hole in the base, and installed 1 Allen bolt.
Now it works pretty slick and I don't even use my regular vice anymore. Well, got a swim meet to go to, and I have to change the oil and adjust the valves on my 87 year old dad's Baja (he's 87, not the Baja ), so I am hoping to be finished up Sunday.
Piledriver - Thanks for the tip on using a PVC cutter for cutting the hoses. I grabbed mine, sharpened the blade on a wet stone, now it make clean and square cuts easily.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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ronbug73
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2009
Posts: 378
Location: ISRAEL
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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ronbug73
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2009
Posts: 378
Location: ISRAEL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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Hi
im running the new gas 134A
its very hot in Israel and the ac is very good
Ron |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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You don't need R12 unless you keep the original low efficiency serpentine condenser.
An efficient, modern parallel flow condenser and no hot air recirculation is the key.
I actually considered the propane refrigerant but its explicitly illegal in Texas, sad as I'd probably only need 12 oz. Allegedly banned fo safety reasons, really corporate lobbying by Dupont, as we cant cut their profits with dirt cheap refrigerant that is used all over the world.
My condenser is 12x14, only 12x12 effective area, with a Maradyne 10" fan, mounted in front fender.
Works great with a $100 aftermarket underdash evap unit in Dallas summer heat and humidity.
It blows colder than my Cabriolet or Mk4 Jettas AC.
The condenser intake hole is ~the area of a playing card behind the front bumper.
(well sealed to fender)
I figured I'd need a condenser that size in both fenders, but my Ebay AC parts guy (from Ft. Worth, same metro area) advised that a modern, properly ducted (hotside/coldside seal, zero recirculation) 12x14 would work fine.
He was absolutely right.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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I welded up a ~1" deep aluminum shroud, sealed at edges w/neoprene foam pipe wrap tape.
its a Maradyne Champion series 10" fan, draws 8A/130W... 950CFM. Found it cheap from a shop that was moving. Moves some air.
http://www.maradynehp.com/m103k.html
I run a GM CS130D alternator on my T4, no charging issues, ever.
Pics of the setup in thread posted earlier on STF, I reposted the missing pics in the last post.
134A is ~30% less efficient than R12, but your new modern parallel flow condenser is 3-4x as efficient vs. the original.
You may be fine with a good, single fan, as long as the hot air can't loop around.
I'd lean towards using two though (even cheap ones) just to reduce the backpressure and allow natural airflow to work better when moving.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day.
Last edited by piledriver on Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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| piledriver wrote: |
You don't need R12 unless you keep the original low efficiency serpentine condenser.
An efficient, modern parallel flow condenser and no hot air recirculation is the key.
I actually considered the propane refrigerant but its explicitly illegal in Texas, sad as I'd probably only need 12 oz. Allegedly banned fo safety reasons, really corporate lobbying by Dupont, as we cant cut their profits with dirt cheap refrigerant that is used all over the world.
My condenser is 12x14, only 12x12 effective area, with a Maradyne 10" fan, mounted in front fender.
Works great with a $100 aftermarket underdash evap unit in Dallas summer heat and humidity.
It blows colder than my Cabriolet or Mk4 Jettas AC.
The condenser intake hole is ~the area of a playing card behind the front bumper.
(well sealed to fender)
I figured I'd need a condenser that size in both fenders, but my Ebay AC parts guy (from Ft. Worth, same metro area) advised that a modern, properly ducted (hotside/coldside seal, zero recirculation) 12x14 would work fine.
He was absolutely right. |
You are dead nuts on the money. R134a with a modern parallel flow condenser beats R12 in the old style condenser for cooling and efficiency any and every day of the week.
I just got done road testing a 1965 Mercedes 220SEb sedan that I installed an old "Kuhlmeister" under dash unit in that I refurbed, along with a new York compressor, a new expansion valve, ans all new hoses. It's 90 degrees and high humidity up here and I had to turn it way down.
I used one of the parallel flow condensers with the built on dryer. These are just great, and I swear the drag on the engine isn't that much, either.
Is your A/c supplier John Kulak from down there- (johnjoysyl on eBay)? If so, I have been buying from him for years- he is the absolute greatest.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Air Conditioning going in soon |
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| Tram wrote: |
Is your A/c supplier John Kulak from down there- (johnjoysyl on eBay)? If so, I have been buying from him for years- he is the absolute greatest. |
Yep, great fellow, and probably the cheapest prices on Ebay... IIRC he's in Irving or thereabouts, mid-burbs between Dallas and Foat Wuth.
He sold me a fitting/trinary switch/dryer kit, sans hose and with lots of extra clamps and slightly non-std compressor connections as I had to weld those on some homemade fittings for a modern GM compressor.---Cheap. Easy to work with and knows his stuff inside and out. He didn't have the condenser I needed in stock but verified one of that size would work (Late T3, sealed inside front fender at angle).
Also got me a hard 90#10 I ended up needing which ended up coming overnight from Ft Worth to just north of Dallas USPS priority 2-3 day.
(Bought it online Wed. late late PM got it Friday AM, it went in the mail pronto)
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day.
Last edited by piledriver on Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Multi69s
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Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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