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originalo
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Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:10 am Post subject: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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I got the info that one of the very rare real KdF type 60 is on auction at Hershey
http://www.thefinest.com/hershey-2016/1943-kdf-beetle
I had the occasion to inspect this car closely in HO 2005 when it had it´s first public appearance, freshly restored.
I am very curious at what price the auction will close. Such models (civil KdF beetles) practically never get publically offered.
Pic I took 2005 in HO:
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EverettB 
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originalo
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Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| EverettB wrote: |
What was your opinion? |
Certainly one of the very, very few real type 60 that survived into our days.
I would dare to say, that there are maybe 10 restored and at the same time serious examples of this very type still on the globe (from about 600 civil beetles made from 1940-1945).
If I am saying "serious" I mean cars, that were born as a type 60 and that still retain their original body (with og and unspoiled front (ears/barrel tank) including the og VIN tag and stamped bodynr) on the og chassis, body and chassis with most of their og panels/bodyparts.
Not to mention all the special and rare KdF parts and features that are characteristic for those jewels. It is a huge task to restore such a car in a correct way.
There are many fakes and wannabes out there. |
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1968KdFWagen
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Posts: 47
Location: Granville
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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Thanks for posting this!
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DDub
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Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 307
Location: central pa.
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| Their estimate is $275,000 to $350,000. |
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EverettB
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Posts: 69804
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| originalo wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
What was your opinion? |
Certainly one of the very, very few real type 60 that survived into our days.
I would dare to say, that there are maybe 10 restored and at the same time serious examples of this very type still on the globe (from about 600 civil beetles made from 1940-1945).
If I am saying "serious" I mean cars, that were born as a type 60 and that still retain their original body (with og and unspoiled front (ears/barrel tank) including the og VIN tag and stamped bodynr) on the og chassis, body and chassis with most of their og panels/bodyparts.
Not to mention all the special and rare KdF parts and features that are characteristic for those jewels. It is a huge task to restore such a car in a correct way.
There are many fakes and wannabes out there. |
Great, thanks for the details.
I was curious what of your opinion was of this exact car and the restoration.
Top notch restoration or ?
I just noticed in the auction photos they do not show a full engine photo.
This seems strange to me.
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srfndoc
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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More photos further down in the web site.
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EverettB
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h~moto
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Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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Wow, what a nice car!
Auction does not claim engine to be original. I wonder if it is. |
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usariemen
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Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1745
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| EverettB wrote: |
I was curious what of your opinion was of this exact car and the restoration.
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I am sure Originalo understood your question.
He´s just too polite and courteous to answere.
When Mac appeared in HO with his car Originalo has been there with his one as well.
I am not an true KDF expert but I´d say Macs was good but Originalos was better.
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VWmeister
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Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| Looks like the speedo lens is cracked. Otherwise a nice restoration. Wonder why no photos of under the hood which is the most distinctive feature of the Kdfwagens. Good luck in the auction Mac. |
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chrissev2
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Posts: 246
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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RE: "The KdF-Wagen was the first example of the Volkswagen Beetle."
Isn't that technically incorrect? What about the so called "38 series"?
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sunroof
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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Shirley the carpeting can't be right?
Don
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usariemen
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| VWmeister wrote: |
| Looks like the speedo lens is cracked. |
Cracked or not. A real type 60 speedo is one of the hardest to find parts.
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mikeandkirsti
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:37 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| h~moto wrote: |
Wow, what a nice car!
Auction does not claim engine to be original. I wonder if it is. |
This is not the original engine of the car. The engine number might be correct for this car and no doubt matches the birth certificate (engine numbers were printed in the birth certificates up to 2006) but the number has been restamped most likely during the restoration on a period correct engine case after grinding the original number off and is not quite authentic with slightly wrong font and missing the stars at each end and control number. Number 1-022854 is also too perfect compared to the real crooked number as they were stamped by hand.
Here is the engine number of the auction car:
and here is a real KdF-Wagen engine number of the exact same era:
Originally the number area was not machined flat on the case, the number was just stamped and stars at each end. The number area of 1-022854 is lighter and very flat, also the casting seam on the right after the number is missing as are the stars. In the real KdF engine number 1-022196 the stars are present and there is a round control number above the line between 1 and 0. Also the real number "2" is different and much more curved. Real "0" is more oval. Comparison of other numbers with real ones would bring out similar differences.
Last edited by mikeandkirsti on Sat May 28, 2016 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mikeandkirsti
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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The auction site says:
this is one of the best known and restored cars out there"
Quite a contradiction if the body is a fake and engine is a fake... |
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kdfkid
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Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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Hello,
like always it is funny that people here give statements that were not even involved with the restauration of this car.
I am not a friend of Dr. Jones - but he always bought the best parts he could get and a lot people earned a heck of money on him ( every time he was at a show - prizes went extra up for him !!!
This car wich is on the auktion here has an orginal body and not a 1947 .
Of course a lot had to been done on it and Jones bought parts from a lot of very early split wich were used by the body work. We did some of the body work but not all - the rest and the complett overhall of all parts and interior were done at Peter Schmallbach in Frankfurt - he did a lot of mistakes as he had no knowlege about KDf beetle - just Kubel and Schwimmer. Then he died an Dr. Jones friend Hermann Schimkat picked up the car and finished it.
The statement that it is the best or one of the best is wrong - in the meantime there are much nicer , orginal and better restaured KDF Typ 60 around - but how often can you buy a KDF beetle ?
Christian |
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mikeandkirsti
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Posts: 284
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:30 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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Thank you very much for that clarification. Very important to know especially for those bidding big bucks since there are KdFs built with newer bodies like this Type 60 with serial number 1-018586 made utilizing an original chassis and a 1946 Beetle body with KdF parts grafted in and misrepresented as having more than 95% of it's original KdF parts intact:
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DDub
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Posts: 307
Location: central pa.
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:10 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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| I can almost see the auction site from my house. IF anyone buys this car and needs storage until it is picked up I can make that available. I will be working the event. |
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iwlego
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Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:02 am Post subject: Re: 1943 KdF Type 60 at auction |
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I did see this KdF Type 60 in Mac's garage and we a great time with some beers next to it. It is a very nice Type 60 with the original pan and an original body as well as all other parts like tank, front axle etc. Especially the VIN plate is also original although a bit damaged! The recently restored KdFs (like my two 1943, the engine block shown earlier in this threat is actually from my 1943 Type 60) are somewhat done better since we and the restorers like Jacek know more about these cars as we did some years ago.
The engine seems to be really a bit later (the screw at the front behind holding the two halves together was not available for the really early 1943 blocks, look at mine in the earlier contribution).
But it is a beautiful car and you can not get those every day!
Good luck Mac!
Richard
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