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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Aren't they just using ARPs? _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3260 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Aren't they just using ARPs? |
I had to have my Type 1 connecting rods spot-faced at the bolt head location and, IIRC, I used small-block Chevy 3/8" bolts. It was a different company then which became or was purchased by ARP. That was a lot of nightcaps ago, so don't quote me. The spot facing tool had to be custom-ground (really a five-minute job) to produce a smooth radius at the edge of the face cut to prevent stress-risers. I spent hours grinding the forging flash and balancing and then had them magna-fluxed before sending them on for aerospace-grade shot-peening.
Back then, a set of Carillo rods still cost 4 times as much as my approach, so it made sense. Nowadays, there's Scat, CB, and Pauter, all good products at great prices. These days, even Carillo's are reasonably priced in today's dollars.
I feel old. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Feeling old is better than the alternative, eh!!
So, I got some allthread and washers and I'm going to make my own tool to pull the piston pins tonight. Looking forward to it. This engine looks fantastic so far, but the bottom line will be to see if whomever rebuilt it used the newer bolts. I will sample one, then make my decision. Woo hoo!! _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Wow - nice. Thanks to the folks here for suggesting the home made piston pin pulling tool. Worked like a charm though I added my twist. Rather than using a pipe section, I simply used a crescent wrench to make it into a slide hammer.
So, I sampled cylinder 2, and the guy who rebuilt it started the engine off well with the non stretch bolts! I'm pumped. The engine looks terrific so far. I went ahead and pulled the rest of them because I'd like to put new rod bearings in. They were tight, but I figure - why not? Then she's good for another 100k or more and it's just a half hour and $30. _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7400 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Do we know why wbx stretch bolts are bad while they're fine in other vehicles (e.g. they're used in connecting rods, drive shafts and flywheel bolts on BMW airhead motorcycles. I've heard they're used in other vehicles as well). _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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No real confirmation. Just seems to be an issue on the WBX. They seem to work out on other engines, which leads me to consider if there is some kind of flex or secondary shake in the WBX that only instrumented testing would reveal. Otherwise it is a bit of a puzzler.
Doug _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Solving mystery of WBX stretch bolts - need experts ASAP. |
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Let me guess, VW took a fairly "normal" rod bolt and decided to give it a torque + angle tightening spec. My experience with torque plus bolts is fairly limited, they are mostly on diesel engines and don't resemble the 2.1 rod bolts. With the 2.1 rod bolts the maximum stress is going to be in the threaded section of the bolt, which is a recipe for disaster, IMO. I don't think the 2.1L rod bolt is an iota stronger than the 1.9L rod bolt ( if anything it is weaker at the same torque) but is tightened a bit tighter.
If you look at a Vanagon head bolt you will see that it is designed to not overly stress the threads and thus hopefully the bolt should not fail through the threads or anywhere else. The 2.1L rod bolts have no such engineered
"soft" section to handle the repeated loading, but have their minimum cross section in the treads themselves , an area that is naturally highly stressed.
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23390 |
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