| Author |
Message |
theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| theDrew wrote: |
in fact I found my home video of when I was doing the R&R.
|
Seeing the video it makes me wonder if the throwout arm is installed correctly?. Don't tell me it can only go on one way. People can force just about anything together wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9935
Location: Orbiting San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, the diesel one fits at a different angle. There is a part number on the side of the arm but I think it is on the side facing the tranny. If it has a C as the last digit of 10 digits then it is the wrong/diesel one.
The brace is important to have in the long run. I have seen a few vans that were missing it and the owners didn't detect any big problem but it could be the final straw if other things were a little off as well.
Mark
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| I agree that the slave cylinder looks at least partially extended already. One other culprit could be the shaft arm itself. There are two different arms, gas and diesel. If I'm not mistaken, the diesel arm sits one spline lower (one spline counter clockwise) than the gas arm. Since this is a fresh rebuild, I suppose it's possible that the rebuilder accidentally installed the wrong arm. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jordauto
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 218
Location: Sorrento,BC
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wildthings makes a good point. The release lever should only be able to be installed correctly. But its possible it's not indexed correctly and was forced on. Looking at my van now at rest,clutch engaged if i draw an imaginary line level and horizontal through the cross shaft,then the push rod end of the lever is about 1/4" -5/16" higher than the cross shaft centre line.. Yours appears to be lower at the push rod end. Check the release lever position on the cross shaft.If it's correct then double check that all clutch replacement parts are correct.
Jeff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drivenachodrive
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 152
Location: Flagstaff
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Woohoo! I think you guys are right, this makes sense. It's getting dark now, and my workshop is a dirt lot, so in the morning I'll get under there and throw some washers under the mount. If that doesn't do it, I'll splice some allthread into the push rod. My glum mood has been lifted!
I'll report back if it works. And if it doesn't 
_________________
Driving around the world in a 1984 VW Vanagon
www.drivenachodrive.com
Read our book: www.drivenachodrive.com/book |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drivenachodrive
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 152
Location: Flagstaff
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, I still have the old transmission sitting here, so I'll just swap the throwout arms from one to the other, and that should solve the problem. There's also a welder in town, so I'll drop the old tranny there and have him make up a bracket that I can install on the new one.
I'm going to eat some ice cream.
_________________
Driving around the world in a 1984 VW Vanagon
www.drivenachodrive.com
Read our book: www.drivenachodrive.com/book |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9935
Location: Orbiting San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think this is the likely explanation. I just looked at a gas arm and diesel arm next to each other in my hands and the diesel arm is keyed to the shaft 1 notch lower so it would put the ball quite a bit farther from slave and the slave would have to extend more at rest and when pumped.
The keyways are such that it would take a real gorilla to force either arm on at anything other than their intended positions and even then probably not possible. Mixing up the arms on the other hand would be easy to do and difficult to detect unless you knew to look for it.
Mark
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| I agree that the slave cylinder looks at least partially extended already. One other culprit could be the shaft arm itself. There are two different arms, gas and diesel. If I'm not mistaken, the diesel arm sits one spline lower (one spline counter clockwise) than the gas arm. Since this is a fresh rebuild, I suppose it's possible that the rebuilder accidentally installed the wrong arm. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drivenachodrive
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 152
Location: Flagstaff
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good news!
I couldn't stand the suspense, so I went out in the dark and worked with a flashlight.
As it turns out, both transmissions had the exact same arm. The difference is that the old transmission only had one angle on which the arm could be positioned (arm had 4 splines, shaft had 4 splines = only one choice). The new transmission had a shaft with an extra spline, meaning that I could choose one of two arm positions. It was set to the more obtuse angle, so I simply moved it over a spline and reinstalled it.
The verdict? Nacho works! I think I need to rebleed the slave cylinder again, as the cylinder doesn't move until 1/2 way through the clutch stroke. This makes it really hard to modulate the clutch and I kept stalling it. However, this is good news and I believe the issue has been solved.
I'll get that new bracket made up tomorrow, rebleed the slave, and go for a nice drive around town. I'm stoked! Thanks to all of you for your expert insights - I would be tearing the transmission out again if not for your help. Any time you want to visit South America, you're welcome to sleep downstairs in Nacho!
_________________
Driving around the world in a 1984 VW Vanagon
www.drivenachodrive.com
Read our book: www.drivenachodrive.com/book |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shadetreetim
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1994
Location: Riverside, California
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Woo Hoo. I kept getting updates all day. Almost felt like I was under there with you.
_________________
Tim Potts
Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!
'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'74 Jeep CJ5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9935
Location: Orbiting San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kudos for sticking with it and solving the problem. This bodes well for your roads ahead.
I wonder where to get those cross shafts with the extra 5th spline? I do a bit of work with diesel vans and the diesel lever arms are NLA and hard to find used. The shaft with the extra spline solves that problem, letting a common gas lever arm work at the diesel angle when needed. I have new cross shafts here from 3 different makers but they all have the same 4 splines as the original VW part.
Mark
| drivenachodrive wrote: |
Good news!......
As it turns out, both transmissions had the exact same arm. The difference is that the old transmission only had one angle on which the arm could be positioned (arm had 4 splines, shaft had 4 splines = only one choice). The new transmission had a shaft with an extra spline, meaning that I could choose one of two arm positions. It was set to the more obtuse angle, so I simply moved it over a spline and reinstalled it.
The verdict? Nacho works! .... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
b00t
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: Asheville, NC
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Congrats on getting fixed, another fine example of some samba love! Rock on Nacho  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drivenachodrive
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 152
Location: Flagstaff
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Crazyvwvanman -
I got the transmission from Bill at AZ Transaxle (aztransaxle.com). Maybe he can tell you where to get those shafts.
_________________
Driving around the world in a 1984 VW Vanagon
www.drivenachodrive.com
Read our book: www.drivenachodrive.com/book |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
designer
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 484
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
|
| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| drivenachodrive wrote: |
The new transmission had a shaft with an extra spline, meaning that I could choose one of two arm positions. It was set to the more obtuse angle, so I simply moved it over a spline and reinstalled it.
|
Okay - so i'm having this issue with my clutch - just reinstalled my rebuilt tranny from AA - it's basically a whole new unit as the only thing useable on mine was the bell housing. though i don't know if i got mine back.
So upon reinstall, i go to start her up and the clutch will not move. At all. Well, it's got several inches of play, then it hits a wall.
I did not have to force the tranny to the motor. It took some muscle lying on our backs, but once it lined up it went.
I assumed the pilot bearing and the other bearings mentioned in this thread were installed and good. I probably couldn't find them anyways.
I can manually, with great effort, move the clutch lever (with the ball joint) up and it falls down on its own. I can get it's full stroke.
Had wifey come out and as I had her apply pressure to the clutch pedal I opened the bleeder - clutch slams to the floor, i close the bleeder. Clutch stays down to floor. I come over to read more, 1 minute later, clutch pedal pops up.
The tranny has been out for 6 months, slave off and on the garage floor.
Was the release shaft supposed to be in a certain position when i reinstalled? Up, Down? Did it matter cuz i paid no attention like an idiot.
Does my clutch lever look like the one with the two positions possible? Seems unlikely that would be my issue.
Could this just be a simple bleed issue? I know when I bleed my KTM brakes the symptom is soft brakes - not a wall.
-or-
Could it be I didn't have a release bearing (throwout? bearing) installed from AA? So it's missing now? I remember mine being trashed when I took it to them. He noted it when I dropped it off. Is there a way to tell w/o dropping the trans again?
thanks - as always for the valuable input.
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy : 2.5l
"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: Re: New transmission - clutch only depresses halfway |
|
|
If you ever had the clutch slave disconnected (or the brake fluid reservoir to go below the clutch feed line) while doing this work then you have air in the line or in the slave itself. It will take mannnnnny times of pushing in the clutch pedal, crack bleeder to bleed then tighten, allow clutch pedal to come up then push down, lather, rinse repeat, before you get that air out. I helped another Vanagon owner in a campground this spring and we had to do about 30 or more cycles before we got all the air out, reservoir had gotten low and sucked in air....
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
designer
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 484
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
|
| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: Re: New transmission - clutch only depresses halfway |
|
|
| dobryan wrote: |
| If you ever had the clutch slave disconnected (or the brake fluid reservoir to go below the clutch feed line) while doing this work then you have air in the line or in the slave itself. |
Okay, by 'disconnected' do you mean the pressure hose itself from the clutch slave cylinder?
I had the whole unit together, laying on the floor of the garage until I put it all back onto the slave cylinder bracket. Nothing was never opened.
When the clutch slave lever and the clutch slave cylinder are not together, the clutch slave plunger is very difficult to move up, and the clutch slave cylinder can be moved up and down very easily - no resistance.
Does that sound like a bleeding will do it or is there something more sinister at hand??
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy : 2.5l
"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
designer
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 484
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
|
| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: New transmission - clutch only depresses halfway |
|
|
Well, the more i thought about it, the more certain i became that i didn't install the throw out bearing. Rookie.
And sure enough, pulled the tranny off and i was correct. Took me all day to get it out the first time - took me just about 2 hours to get it out this time - even fighting the clutch slave! 
So, bearing will be here tomorrow - i got the sleeve, too, but there is one present now. Is the bearing installation pretty easy? There isn't much said in the bentley 30.6-8.
Also - where is the clutch fluid main reservoir? I can't find it.
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy : 2.5l
"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drivenachodrive
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 152
Location: Flagstaff
|
| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: Re: New transmission - clutch only depresses halfway |
|
|
It only takes 5 minutes to remove and re-fit the slave cylinder arm. Just pop it off and try the other position.
_________________
Driving around the world in a 1984 VW Vanagon
www.drivenachodrive.com
Read our book: www.drivenachodrive.com/book |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
