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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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I wanted to post my previous build for a client with a convertible Ghia because I often see members asking about performance builds on a budget. The client supplied the ignition, cooling tins, charging system, induction, muffler, and oil cooler, so idk exactly how much he spent after his wholesale discount. I built the longblock with a $1500 budget. That included the clutch and flywheel. Also, I found the header at the swap meet for $75. It had been used only a few hours.
I'd like to thank thesamba.com for allowing me to meet clients' budget goals by finding great deals, MURZI for helping me with jetting advice, and Jason for help with cam degreeing.
Here's the specs: some may not agree with the combination, but I discussed with my client his needs, vehicle, and driving habits, and we settled on this combination. If he's happy, then I'm happy.
1915cc
AA 94s, .061" deck, .001" variance between all cylinders, smaller cylinder register for 10mm studs
stock, balanced bottom end, .010" mains/STD rods, balanced to .01 grams
Full weight flywheel, four dowelled, SCAT big gland nut-torqued to 300 ft lbs.
CB 5 1/2 lb equalizer pulley
CB 2234 cam (similar to W100), 8.5:1 compression
IAP Moresa lifters
Brothers 043 Mexico heads (the Samba for $130), 35x32 valves, seats blended into ports, 3-angle valve job, 53cc chambers
CB/Manton Aluminum HD pushrods, 11.015" final length
CB windage tubes
Reworked 1.1 rockers with new batch CB Elephant Foot adjusters, no rockers spacers (near perfect geometry with back-cut rocker arms), SCAT solid shafts, .005 endfloat on exhaust rockers/.008" on intake rockers with floating spacers
21mm blueprinted Cofap oil pump, .003" gear endfloat including gasket
EMPI iron full flow cover
.020" line bored case, 10mm studs
1 3/8" (yes, that's right) Al's header
Broken in with Brad Penn 30W break-in oil
Engine will be done making power at 5000 RPM and should make about 90HP. The CWC EP-12 billet that CB uses works well with Moresa lifters. Moresas weigh approx 96 grams and cost $35-$40; much less than CB 28s. Another compatible lifter is the Riosulence Brazilian orange box lifter. It's the same brand as their black Bigfoot lifters.
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3466 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Making it happen for that low of a cost is pretty amazing! I don't know of any shops that can hand a customer a rebuilt 1915 for $1500, thats crazy! Nice job!!!
Jeff _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Nice job! with a little smart shopping you can save a bunch of money on these engines.
Is this built with a single relief case? I just ask because of the 21mm oil pump _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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No. Dual relief. The 1600 core had that pump replaced late in its' life. It had virtually no wear. I blueprinted the crap out of it, and reused it. You can still have excellent pressure with a 21mm pump. The journals of the crank were all within spec. That shows me that the pump was doing its' job.
I actually prefer rebuilding engines using the old pump IF they're not too worn. The pump has already proved that it's capable of performing on that particular case. |
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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excellent as long as you have good pressure, the only dual relief I've rebuilt with a 21mm pump did not have good pressure, switched to 26 and it was fine. _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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rs58rag Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2010 Posts: 419 Location: riverside,ca
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Looks nice. Would've eight Dowelled crank, 26mm oil pump, 40x35 valves..... just a bit extra $ with option to turbo in future. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Yes. All good upgrades, but with my strict budget, I had to keep the combo tame. I do believe the owner when he says he'll drive it normally. The four-dowels will be fine for 5,000. Heck, when I had my very similar 1915, I drove it into the ground with four dowels, and never had an issue. It has the bigger gland nut and washer torqued to 300 ft lbs. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7219 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Good job for the price. The 1 3/8 header is actually nice.
Personally I would have used a stock or quality aluminum crank pulley. With a stock weight flywheel there is no need for added rotating weight, unless the guy wants to lug around at idle half the time. The heavier pulley just makes the engine tamer.
The 2234 is on the low side compared to a W100, but 90ish hp still sounds about right.
One thing tghat really hurts my eyes is the fact that you use aftermaket cool tin and (as far as I can see) are not installing the airdeflectors and are also not using the small cool tin behind 2 & 4. Those little things really help the cooling air do its job properly.
But once again, detailing and care to the parts can make a huge difference. And doing it that way stock parts can hold up a long way. People often drop their jaw when I build and sell 110 hp/160Nm 1600īs built mainly on stock parts internally, and typically say something like "yeah, and then we have to rebuild it in two years time" Nope, 10 years or so, depending on how much they drive of course. But balance, lighteweight and a good tune helps tyou go a loong way.
Keep up the good work.
T |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Alstrup, very good info. The cooling issue is something I know about, believe in, and push to my clients usually. I say usually because when I am working with a strict budget (both parts and labor), and a tight schedule for the amount of mock-up, inspecting, measuring, cleaning, and assembly time, already painted tins look real good over tins that need blasting, straightening, and painting. My last big build, I had the time to source the correct German tins; hoover bits, rear cylinder deflectors, sled tins, shroud, cylinder covers, shroud, cooler tins, etc. I had time to blast them, weld to eliminate the heat ducts and add holes on the front of the shroud, block the breastplate holes, modify the firewall tin, but all that stuff takes time. I think I had 13 hours into the shroud alone. I actually keep at lot of these tins in my garage now. I have three F.I. shrouds and 3 regular doghouse shrouds, 8 pairs of cylinder tins... it took me awhile to collect these items, and if clients want them, they'll have to pay up AND have the patience to restore/modify them.
I do agree about keeping as much factory complete tin as possible though. I wish the aftermarket made new replacements.
*Edit: I used the square deflector plate between the cylinders. No "cool tin", by which I think you mean the T3-style under-cylinder tin. |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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no flaps in shroud, no t-stat..
I notices you sell these items in your ads, but wonder why you wouldn't insist and install on one of your builds??
I'm sure a lot of nuts, bolts, washers, internal odds and ends, were not charged for (nickel/diming up the value), so why not throw in the extra parts missing as well??
if truly a $1500 budget, with valve job, balancing, etc... you pretty much did it as a favor or hobby build.
that's an easy $3000-3500 engine, although it still needs to be completed. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Still agree... Idk how it is where you're from, but the clients I usually work with have generally the same mentality; they want the biggest engine they can get for the least amount of money. Either I tell them to kick rocks, or I work with their budget. I have approximately 30 completely restored thermostat assemblies. Painted, zinc plated, stainless control rods, stainless emergency springs, correct clips with shims and all the do-dads. For the time I spent sourcing the parts, blasting, priming, painting, testing, polishing, waiting for orders, etc, I want more than people are willing to pay for a complete assembly. I'm sure in my lifetime, only a special few will cross paths with me who truly believe in quality over all else.
80% of the clients I've ever worked with could care less about the lengths I go to get their decks squared, chamber sizes even, geometry dead-on... All they care about is "does it go fast"? When I tell them to run $9-a quart Brad Penn oil, I always get the feeling like their next oil change they're putting Pennzoil in. All I can say is I gauge my clients. I can tell who will opt for a good, complete cooling system over a more attractive setup.
Anyways, the car it's going in will be parked for awhile, and rarely driven. I need to persuade him to at least break-in the rings. I bet it won't see 10,000 miles in the next 3 years. If he came to me saying it needed to be a daily driver engine, I'd push for better parts.
Btw, the parts/hardware/machining was $1500. My labor was not included in the $1500. For anyone trying to build for that price, you'll need special tools. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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I actually have a buddy who builds VW engines as well. He says he doesn't build turnkeys for that very reason. He attaches tins, burnishes the cam, removes the tins, and sells the longblock. It's waay less of a headache. They can take his recommendations or not. Who cares? It's out of his hands. I'm sure he knows they'll put on whatever B.S. stuff they have, and be happy with it. Either we turn our noses up at the regulars, and only work with the elite, or we continue to build our reputations up by working with whoever will come our way. |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
Btw, the parts/hardware/machining was $1500. My labor was not included in the $1500. For anyone trying to build for that price, you'll need special tools. |
Bingo!
"budget reliable 1915" for only $1500 kind of threw me off as a little misleading. (great ploy to attract a phone call inquiring for a $1500 HP build though, )
I do agree that just about everyone wants the biggest, baddest engine for as little as possible though. I set my prices and hold my ground knowing that I'll be sorting ALL the little odds and ends while going through the build. It's the customer's that respect what I do for them that have no issue paying my price.
I do, however, go above and beyond on every build, regardless if I have to cover an odd or end...Literally building them as if they were getting a long term warranty...
Last edited by vwinnovator on Thu May 26, 2016 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
I actually have a buddy who builds VW engines as well. He says he doesn't build turnkeys for that very reason. He attaches tins, burnishes the cam, removes the tins, and sells the longblock. It's waay less of a headache. They can take his recommendations or not. Who cares? It's out of his hands. I'm sure he knows they'll put on whatever B.S. stuff they have, and be happy with it. Either we turn our noses up at the regulars, and only work with the elite, or we continue to build our reputations up by working with whoever will come our way. |
I hear ya..
Problem with just building long blocks (I do those as well), is that the end installer rarely knows what odds and end are missing, rarely knows how to tune, and often ends up assuming "the builder" is at fault when they mess up the engine. Hence, I offer a "hands on" service to assist those willing to learn to build and take care of their engines.
I couldn't tell you how many customers have called me through the years telling me they bought an engine somewhere, no idea of specs, can't get it to run well, and want me to "tune it" for pennies....
I have a strict policy these days-If I don't build it, It's a 4hr. min. labor charge to assess and iron out tuning issues, with no guaranty on results...Otherwise, go back to where you bought it..
So many "enthusiasts" go cheap thinking they are saving a buck only to find out the spend more in the long run...
I would say the same issues are present throughout the entire automotive field though, domestics, exotics... |
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PumaVW79 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012 Posts: 487 Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Budget Reliable 1915 |
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Alstrup wrote: |
But once again, detailing and care to the parts can make a huge difference. And doing it that way stock parts can hold up a long way. People often drop their jaw when I build and sell 110 hp/160Nm 1600īs built mainly on stock parts internally, and typically say something like "yeah, and then we have to rebuild it in two years time" Nope, 10 years or so, depending on how much they drive of course. But balance, lighteweight and a good tune helps tyou go a loong way.
T |
:-C
Jaw dropped... |
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