Won't go into gear

rbossert · Samba Member Joined: July 10, 2008 Posts: 115

After the engine rebuild on the '69 I can't get her into gear (any) with the engine running. I changed out the clutch cable which was a little frayed, adjusted the free play. I even tried taking up all the free play to see if it would go but still couldn't coax it into gear. During the rebuild I replaced the clutch disc but not the pressure plate, throwout bearing, or pilot bearing which all appeared and felt good. I've heard they should be matched to each other but haven't done this in the past and never had a problem. The clutch pedal feels hard to depress but it does go to the floor. I'm out of ideas and could really use some ideas on this.
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'71 Westfalia
'69 double cab
'72 bug
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SGKent · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

does it shift with the engine off?
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airschooled · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

airschooled · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

SGKent · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

or T4
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busdaddy · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

Is this sudden?, or has it never worked since you put it back together?
How long has it sat?, has it been rainy or humid where you are?
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rbossert · Samba Member Joined: July 10, 2008 Posts: 115

She sat for several years and shifted fine before the engine rebuild though the linkage has always been balky. Idaho is dry in summer and cold and snowy in winter. I can get it into first or reverse, when the engine is off, start it up, release the clutch and move the vehicle. Yes, in hindsight I should have replaced the pilot bearing and probably the throwout bearing and maybe the pressure plate as well. Wildthings noted different clutch systems: does this suggest the new disc may not match my pressure plate? I really doubt I could have had a total brain fart and put the disc in backwards; not even sure if that's possible. I'll get under it tomorrow and watch the release lever and try turning it over by hand. What could cause the pedal pressure to be significantly harder than that of my '71 Type 2? I wondered about the Bowden tube sag but it looks about the same as the one on my '71.
_________________
'71 Westfalia
'69 double cab
'72 bug
'87 Quantum Synchro

richparker · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

Did you support the transaxle while the engine was out?

Maybe be you need a new shift coupled and/or a shift plate alignment.
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busdaddy · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

If you can start it in gear with the clutch depressed and it doesn't drive off uncontrollably then the plate hasn't rusted to the flywheel. If you are sure the cable is adjusted well and the release fork isn't broken or popped off a throwout bearing ear then suspect the pressure plate or warped clutch disc. Or sometimes rusty or rough pilot shaft splines.

Sounds like the engine has to come out.
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rbossert · Samba Member Joined: July 10, 2008 Posts: 115

I forgot to mention that although the truck sat outside for a couple years the engine was inside the shop. Yes the trans was supported.
_________________
'71 Westfalia
'69 double cab
'72 bug
'87 Quantum Synchro

rbossert · Samba Member Joined: July 10, 2008 Posts: 115

Regarding the tests, the engine is harder to turn manually in first than in neutral but it does turn so apparently it's not fully engaging.
_________________
'71 Westfalia
'69 double cab
'72 bug
'87 Quantum Synchro

airschooled · Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

aeromech · Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

When you installed the new disc and then the pressure plate. Did you slowing tighten the pressure plate bolts in a cross pattern until you did the final torque?
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SGKent · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

sounds like the clutch disc or pilot bearing is dragging. Will have to pull the engine to resolve it.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

Tcash · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

I can get it into first or reverse, when the engine is off, start it up, release the clutch and move the vehicle.
The disc is not stuck to the flywheel. But you should be able to get into all gear engine off.
Check the shift coupler.
Shifter Parts ID

Wildthings noted different clutch systems: does this suggest the new disc may not match my pressure plate?
Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing

Bowden tube sag but it looks about the same as the one on my '71.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1128257.jpg

Regarding the tests, the engine is harder to turn manually in first than in neutral but it does turn so apparently it's not fully engaging.
Turning the engine in gear, brake off clutch out should cause the vehicle to move forward in proportion with your turning.

Good luck
Tcash

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

I am thinking that maybe the throwout bearing has come off of one of the fingers and has gotten cocked somehow, or maybe the input shaft pulled out of the transmission a bit and is somehow fouling things up.

I agree at this point the engine needs to come out again. For myself I have learned to check the clutch and shifter operation when I first get the engine up into its home and have all the bolts in place. If the shifter will not move freely into all gears and/or the clutch just doesn't feel right it takes little time to pull the engine back out and correct what it wrong.

basic_bear · Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

the 1968 bus I'm working on was sitting for 5 years, the brakes were seized and the oil cooler was not tightened properly and created a huge oil leak. I cleaned and replaced, as required, all the brakes, removed engine and secured oil cooler. on my first test drive I thought my brakes may have been too tight and were dragging as it was like brakes were on so didn't get out of the drive way and I adjusted brakes again-all tires turn freely
the problem didn't go away..... the bus is very resistant to moving; I can move through all the gears, when i'm in first, engine running and try and release the clutch the whole bus twists, like one of the brakes are on. reverse seems a little better and the bus seems to move more freely. I tried a start with clutch pedal released and gear shift in neutral and the bus hops like it is in gear. so I'm thinking the gear shift doesn't shift to neutral. when the clutch is depressed bus starts but still doesn't roll if gear shift is in neutral. seems like two problems one being the neutral and the other is that the transaxle isn't really in first--maybe in two gears...
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1972 westy deluxe, Niagara Blue
1958 Panel, Dove Blue
1969 beetle purple

busdaddy · Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

basic_bear · Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Won't go into gear

the 1968 bus I'm working on was sitting for 5 years, the brakes were seized and the oil cooler was not tightened properly and created a huge oil leak. I cleaned and replaced, as required, all the brakes, removed engine and secured oil cooler. on my first test drive I thought my brakes may have been too tight and were dragging as it was like brakes were on so didn't get out of the drive way and I adjusted brakes again-all tires turn freely
the problem didn't go away..... the bus is very resistant to moving; I can move through all the gears, when i'm in first, engine running and try and release the clutch the whole bus twists, like one of the brakes are on. reverse seems a little better and the bus seems to move more freely. I tried a start with clutch pedal released and gear shift in neutral and the bus hops like it is in gear. so I'm thinking the gear shift doesn't shift to neutral. when the clutch is depressed bus starts but still doesn't roll if gear shift is in neutral. seems like two problems one being the neutral and the other is that the transaxle isn't really in first--maybe in two gears...
_________________
1972 westy deluxe, Niagara Blue
1958 Panel, Dove Blue
1969 beetle purple


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