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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Stuck in Neutral |
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Just purchased a beautiful Manx clone built on a 1974 chassis with rebuilt engine and transmission. All of a sudden I can't get any gear at all. The stick seems to be selecting a gear - I've checked the clutch adjustment and looked in the tunnel to make sure it's connected and all looks good. Pushing the pedal definitely moves the clutch operating lever so it doesn't seem to be anything in the cable.
There is a tiny amount of grinding if I shift with the engine on and no clutch and there seems to be a little grumbling from the tranny if I put it into what seems to be a gear but it goes nowhere.
Guessing I have to pull the engine but what should I be looking for? Stuck clutch? Any way I can test some things before dropping the engine? |
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tripicana Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2003 Posts: 1164 Location: colorado springs
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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You probably stripped the splines on your brake drums. The axle nut wasn't torqued enough.
Have a helper watch the center axle nut while you put it in gear. _________________ foam cowboy hats aren't good helmets. |
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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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That looks promising, and an easy test to run - thanks! |
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johnysnyd Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2012 Posts: 83 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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There is also a coupler on the input shaft inside the transmission that I have seen break. You have to take a side cover off of your trans to get to it. It is not as easy to check as your brakes though, so I would start there. _________________ my build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5953836#5953836 |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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johnysnyd wrote: |
There is also a coupler on the input shaft inside the transmission that I have seen break. You have to take a side cover off of your trans to get to it. It is not as easy to check as your brakes though, so I would start there. |
I thought of the same issue. Remember breaking one of those in my swingaxle in my old race buggy while in reverse gear. The sleeve connects the input shaft from the clutch to the input shaft inside the trans. The sleeve also has gear teeth on the outside to drive reverse gear.
For an idea of what it is, look in Smileyman3000's thread about his offroad Bus. He didn't break the sleeve, but did break the snap ring that holds it in place.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612013&start=20 _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Way back in the "dim time" I had the sleeve break on input shaft, the stud unscrewed and when I pulled engine the section of input shaft stayed in clutch!....Not a real common problem.... My bet is with mild grinding sounds its the splines in brake drum...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Well it's not the brake splines, fired her up and tossed her in gear and no motion on the nuts - didn't look like there was any motion around the CV joints either so I'm guessing it's time for the engine to come out and take a deeper dive. Still a little grinding and grumbling like something's trying to catch. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Ok.....
You are interested in parts 3, 12 and 13.... You are going to have to pull diff side cover to see them ( passenger side) ...
But first are you sure its really shifting, what does shift rod coupler look like, is grub screw loose or maybe coupler has self destructed?
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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I'm almost 100% sure it's shifting. The grub screw looks ok and even though it's clearly a non-original coupler I can see motion from the front side transfer across the coupler and do things on the back side. It's certainly possible something has gone wrong behind the tunnel where I can't see it but I feel pretty certain that from the coupler all the way front to the shifter and immediately behind the coupler it's working.
Thanks for the diagram. Hoping to have some time to pull the engine and poke around soon.
Can I really see those parts just by pulling the diff side cover? Looking through that thread it seemed like he had a crazy endoscope to see in there. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Yes the area in diff is highly visible/accessible if you pull side cover and if snap ring is gone or inner splinted "reverse gear" damaged it is easily accessed to work on... IF you have older transaxle that has two side covers pull passenger side, if later model with single side cover (drivers side) you will have to pull diff ring gear and carrier..
This is how it should look.. Pics are of dual diff side plate early transaxle.. Passenger side..
This is with reverse gear removed and shaft unscrewed from stud...
MIght also want to look at this thread...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143138
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Ok, so having pulled the transmission and gone all the way in it doesn't seem to be the shaft. Honestly the only issue I found in my journey into the tranny was that the fulcrum plates had popped out (which might have happened during disassembly) and one of my side gears really doesn't like my diff. It was a pain to get it out and it won't go back in without some good old fashioned freezing and whacking.
Is it possible that my hockey stick somehow jumped out of the gear selectors in the nosecone? I can't figure anything else out that would keep me from being able to select a gear.
I'm at the decision point - do I put everything back together and push it back in with my fingers crossed or do I bring in a new tranny?
Advice? |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Have you checked the clutch disc?
The side gear should have gone in in the diff EZ. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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BreweryBug Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 6 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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Yeah, one of the side gears goes in very smoothly, the other is a real pain. I had to hammer on it fairly solidly with a drift to get it out and it clearly doesn't want to reseat - it's almost like there's a constriction half way down.
I gave the clutch a cursory going over - I didn't think the issue would be in there since there wasn't any grinding during shifting - I just couldn't get it into any gear at all. I figured if the clutch had gone I'd get terrible gear grinding. Although I suppose if the clutch was stuck engaged I'd get that behavior. Didn't look stuck engaged but I'll give it a thorough going over anyways. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Neutral |
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I've seen a clutch disc where the center hub with the inner splines had broken rivets that fasten it to the disc so the hub rotated but the disc did not. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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