Help With a Push Button Start Switch

[chencho]

Hey folks,

Thought I would post my issue here and see if the Samba community could point me in the right direction. The previous owner of my 1979 Bay wired a push button starter switch as a bypass to the original, keyed ignition switch. It was spliced inline with wire nuts, between the red/back and black/yellow ignition wires. Simple enough.

In an effort to clean things up, I removed the push button switch from the system, installed a new ignition switch in the column and soldered the ignition wiring back together. Now when I attempt to start (with the key) I only get a "click" from the relay under the dash. It also has one unused terminal on it, so I feel as though some additional wire re-routing has taken place before my ownership.

When using a test light, none of the terminals are momentarily hot when the key is in the start position. So, what is the "click" supplying power to? I've looked at schematics online for the '79, but it's hard to figure out if the relay under the dash is wired properly. I'm sure it's something easy, but I'm stumped. Any help or link to a wiring diagram of this particular relay is greatly appreciated.

[busdaddy]

VW didn't put that relay there so I can't offer any insight on it. Sure the click you hear isn't from the back of the bus?
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[Wildthings]

The relay isn't stock, so it is hard to know what it was supposed to do. You need power on the #50 wire (red/black) to the starter in order for the starter to engage and you need power to the #15 circuit (plain black) if you expect the engine to start while the starter turns.

The "X" circuit (black/yellow) isn't involved with the engine starting or running when everything is wired correctly.

[chencho]

Thanks for the info. Sadly, I was expecting to hear that it wasn't a stock relay as I've never seen one like it.

The click is coming from the relay for certain. The ignition switch is powering it up in the start position, other than that I'm at a loss. I'll follow the #15 circuit and see where it is connected.

From where does the #50 wire typically get powered?

Thanks again!

[Wildthings]

[Tcash]

Click on pic

[sodbuster]

I'd also noticed the white wire on that relay is hooked to a circuit breaker. That is a non stock item as well that should be addressed and dealt with while you are in there. I can only wonder as to why it was needed in the first place.

And the fuzzy square in the background the white wire comes from to reach the circuit breaker. Is it a "Scotch loc" connector? I hope not. This post has three of my pet peeves in automotive wiring, wire nuts scotch locs and superfluous circuit breakers. IMO the person that invented the "Scotch loc" connector should face a firing squad!

[chencho]

The white wire is hot. It's suppling constant power to the non-stock relay via the circuit breaker. The fuzzy square in the background is a stock junction where the white comes in from the main harness. The junction also has a snipped black/red wire on the other end.

Time to study the stock wiring diagrams (thanks Tcash and Wildthings for posting by the way)!

[Wildthings]

[chencho]

Thanks for the additional help.

To be clear, the white wire is on a junction connected to a black wire with a red stripe. Not the red/black ignition wire. The fact that it's not stock is a step in the right direction though, I appreciate the feedback there.

The #50 wire is indeed attached to the correct terminal on the starter. As a reminder, the push button start switch was simply wired in-line between the black/yellow wire and the red/black stock ignition wire. My apologies, I forgot to mention that it fired the bus just fine when it was installed.

The bus will run with the key on (not in the start position) and either the starter is jumped, or a jumper wire is connected between the black/yellow wire (it has constant power) and red/black ignition wire. So it sounds like I just need to find momentary power to the red/black wire when the key is in start.

I'll crawl under there tomorrow and test the other 3 black wires connected to the relay. It seems like something has been re-routed incorrectly.

Thanks again for the assistance!

[Red Fau Veh]

Push button, man I had that too and the key was left in the ignition and the PO made a jig to hold it there and keep anyone from turning it. It was a cluster fark and had big gauge home depot house wiring from back to front using seal tight flex conduit run underneath the belly pans. I broke out the Bentley schematics and just disconnected everything non stock, replaced the old ignition switch, reconnected the stock wiring, and bam, everything was perfect. All the PO had to do was replace the fried ignition switch but of course that meant pulling the steering wheel, which was a whore btw. I had a pile of non stock wires and crud like wire nuts and scotch locks and other goobly goo that filled my waste basket. It makes me angry to see those home brew fixes on old vw's. Why the hell can't 1970's man just go to the stinking dealership and buy correct stock parts? You never see a Chevy with all that rigamaroo done to it.

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1971 Deluxe Sunroof Bay 1905 stroker, dual idf40's, 74mm Scat forged crank, engle 110 cam. CB 044 heads, AutoCraft rockers, chromoly push rods
1973 Orange transporter stock type 4 with dual 40 Dellortos and Empi single quiet pack
1969 Adventurewagen blue whale Gene Berg 1776 built by Dave Kawell dual 36 DRLA's, Vintage Speed exhaust, Bosch 019 screamer
1961 Swivel Seat camper, L345 grey

[Wildthings]

Red and Red/White wires are the #30 (B+) circuit and have constant power.

Red/Black is the #50 actuation wire for the starter, it only has power in the START position

Black is the #15 circuit for the ignition which should have power when the switch is in both the ON position and the START position

Black/Yellow is the "X" Load Reduction circuit, it should have power only in the ON position, it should not have constant power.

[chencho]