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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 2696
Location: sacramento
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 Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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Good info, I just want to try something a little different. Also build it to compliment my driving, a 5 speed gearbox is next on my supers modification list.
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71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| one small point of consideration.if you want something fast, or faster the a stock vw dont waste $$ on crap parts/ used up parts&pieces&throwing a "wish" motor togeather as it will just dissapoint you and delay the what you want.....or possiably end it totaly befor it ever gets going. |
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vugbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 2696
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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Just a little update here, I've been collecting parts but haven't done any mock ups yet, have other things going on but I hope to find some good stuff this weekend at Bug-O-rama. I have everything except the cam, gears, bearings, lifters, rods, and some other odds and ends.
This is what the combo is looking like:
German 69 crank 8 dowelled
CB 5.5" rods? or maybe 5.4"? or 5.6"?
AA thick wall 92's B p/c (90.5 case x 94 head)
Mexican 043 heads 40x35 valves, 43cc chambers currently, they are unported so I will talk to some head builders and see what we can come up with.
CB 2246 cam 260* @ .050"/ .452" @ the valve with 1.1 rockers
12 lb flywheel 8 dowelled
shooting for 10:1 compression, with .040" deck and 45cc chambers i'm close (on paper at least)
44 webers and 1-5/8 merged exhaust will handle the flow
I'm excited to start test fitting!
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Lo Cash John
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:16 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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Just babbling...
I wonder how it would do with some aluminum Rodzilla rods and old Crown aluminum flywheel? Basically have the crank journals offset ground to Chevy size (I think that's the only choice for those rods) but instead of increasing the stroke, decrease it instead.
Titanium rods would be the ultimate but that's getting into STUPID money for such a small motor.
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www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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ps2375
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Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:05 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| Why would you handicap it with a non-counter weighted crank from the start? It doesn't add that much weight for the benefits gained. |
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Lo Cash John
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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The lighter the reciprocating weight (rods, pistons, pins, rings) the less important the counterweights are relative to the RPM. This results in a snappy engine that could rev up like a modern sport bike engine.
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www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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vugbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 2696
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
| Why would you handicap it with a non-counter weighted crank from the start? It doesn't add that much weight for the benefits gained. |
I might switch to a counterweighted one and save the other one for something a bit milder, but its already blueprinted and ready to go.
Maybe i'll try to bribe the CB guys this weekend 
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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 2696
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:56 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| Lo Cash John wrote: |
Just babbling...
I wonder how it would do with some aluminum Rodzilla rods and old Crown aluminum flywheel? Basically have the crank journals offset ground to Chevy size (I think that's the only choice for those rods) but instead of increasing the stroke, decrease it instead.
Titanium rods would be the ultimate but that's getting into STUPID money for such a small motor. |
I did a bit of research about aluminum flywheels and most guys said to stay away from them. Never thought about aluminum rods, I wonder how they hold up. If I do get a new crank maybe i'll have it machined for chevy journals (a 69 with chevy journals  )
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jeff68
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Joined: November 02, 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Sarasota, Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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To start you really should go read through the entire thread on that JPM "mouse" engine. He even lists the parts he used and where he bought them. The heads and pistons were the most expensive and exotic parts used. Johannes did a lot of calculations about what he needed the parts to be able to do to generate the kind of power he wanted from this engine. There was very little guess work that went in to that engine. What I'm saying is there is a recipe / plan that does exactly what you want to do. Although it's fun to figure it out on your own it will be expensive and time consuming.....don't re-invent the wheel.....maybe modify it or improve on it.  |
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ps2375
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Joined: April 24, 2014
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Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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I have a welded counter weighted VW crank and several stock VW cranks, not having weighed them on an actual scale, there really isn't that much difference between them. If I was home I'd weigh them and see what that difference is.(But that won't happen till weekend, currently). I would think a lightened FW would offer more "snappiness" than a non-counter weighted crank would. And the fact that the case/bearings aren't getting hammered (light rods and pistons or not) would give me more peace of mind when the tach needle goes into the nether regions. And also having a case shuffle pinned and made ready for those RPM's would make me want a counter-weighted crank all the more. Even though this will be a small cc motor, it won't be any less costly to build correctly to standup to the abuse that it will receive as a "spinner motor".
My 2087cc will see above 6500 rpm on occasion, and it has the internals to do it, but in today's money, I prolly couldn't afford to build it. I'm glad my father was able to do it back in the 80's and 90's. |
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jpaull
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Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3460
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| vugbug68 wrote: |
Just a little update here, I've been collecting parts but haven't done any mock ups yet, have other things going on but I hope to find some good stuff this weekend at Bug-O-rama. I have everything except the cam, gears, bearings, lifters, rods, and some other odds and ends.
This is what the combo is looking like:
German 69 crank 8 dowelled
CB 5.5" rods? or maybe 5.4"? or 5.6"?
AA thick wall 92's B p/c (90.5 case x 94 head)
Mexican 043 heads 40x35 valves, 43cc chambers currently, they are unported so I will talk to some head builders and see what we can come up with.
CB 2246 cam 260* @ .050"/ .452" @ the valve with 1.1 rockers
12 lb flywheel 8 dowelled
shooting for 10:1 compression, with .040" deck and 45cc chambers i'm close (on paper at least)
44 webers and 1-5/8 merged exhaust will handle the flow
I'm excited to start test fitting! |
That's awesome you will make it out to Bug-o-Rama! CB Performance will be there and they have offered their heads at some lower then normal costs. your key to being a "spinner" not just in rotating mass, but your head flow. I would be tempted to not even worry about your Mexican 043's, and go straight to some Super Pro's.
You been in Sacramento for long? you remember years ago a Paul that worked at Victory autoparts on Auburn blvd with the Ghia? His 1776 with heads ported similar to super pros was wicked fast. He gave me a ride with that motor later in his oval and it pulled crazy hard to 8000 rpms. (he would tear it down once a year too though).
Im with ps2375, the slightly more weight of the counterweighted crank is worth every once of the "sacrifice".
Jeff
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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vugbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006
Posts: 2696
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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| jpaull wrote: |
That's awesome you will make it out to Bug-o-Rama! CB Performance will be there and they have offered their heads at some lower then normal costs. your key to being a "spinner" not just in rotating mass, but your head flow. I would be tempted to not even worry about your Mexican 043's, and go straight to some Super Pro's.
You been in Sacramento for long? you remember years ago a Paul that worked at Victory autoparts on Auburn blvd with the Ghia? His 1776 with heads ported similar to super pros was wicked fast. He gave me a ride with that motor later in his oval and it pulled crazy hard to 8000 rpms. (he would tear it down once a year too though).
Im with ps2375, the slightly more weight of the counterweighted crank is worth every once of the "sacrifice".
Jeff |
I've been in Sac for 15 years, my friends and I always camp out at BugOrama both May and September but I don't really know too many guys in the local "scene" so I dont know the Paul your talking about. I've built a couple 1776's that were real "snappy" and a blast to drive, just want to take it up a notch with this one. I have a 2109 longblock and a 2332 longblock in my shop now so I know the potential of these things.
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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
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Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: N/A "spinner" engine |
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I like the super pro heads but not for this engine, The mini wedge are tempting, but I need small chambers.
Parts are probably subject to change, I haven't even done a mock up assembly yet. If I dont use something for this engine, it will get used eventually
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