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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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 Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| wardvwracer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I am going to try and give this VR1 a good run and I will report back what I find. |
I just picked up some VR1 10W30 for a 200+hp set up. I've typically run straight 30W and 40W Valvoline Racing oil, but thought I should consider a 10 winter 30 rather than straight 30 this time around. According to the label this variation of VR1 claims to be good with flat tappet cams. Still unsure...
Have you run your VR1 yet? Any feedback/results yet?
The oil that I ran in this engine immediately before this build was 30wt "heavy duty", a local brand, with a Lucas break-in additive with lots of zinc. Upon tear down I found the skirts of my pistons orange colored. The coloring cleaned easily with carb cleaner, but was concerning. Hence one of the reasons I'm looking at different oil this time. |
I've used it for many years and it's been great. Just changed it recently and was given some that had an older SG rating from NAPA.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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cbrkat28
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2015
Posts: 6
Location: Dallas
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
I don't disagree with you, but I know of many people that use T6 5W-40 in their sportbikes because it's JASO-MA (or something like that) certified and it becomes a pretty heated topic on that forum. I've used it once in my own bike, but it seems to break down quickly when riding aggressively like at a trackday...I stick to Motul 300v 5W-40 w/ an OEM oil filter personally.
Also, is there an oil filter thread?...since type 1's had no filter, I have no idea which filter will match the flow rate of the oil pump and obviously I don't want to starve it. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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Experience is a fram hp1 or 3600 "size" filter seems to be ok, but of course stay away from fram, as there are complaints about the all-cardboard internal structure.
I did use k&n 2009 of the same canister size for a long time and they worked great, good balance of flow filtering and they caught all the crap a few times when my buddies blew their stuff up, but they moved production to mexico and used worse design and filter media so I had to quit buying them.
Things change but that "size" filter seems to be ok, just have to get a good quality unit from wix or whatever brand is not currently selling out, riding on their rep, and hoping we don't notice. cross reference 3600 to whatever brand looks best. i tried mobil one, took the filter out of the box and it says made in usa???? heavy case, by golly, looks just like the K&N use to but different paint job.
Really makes you wonder. |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| cbrkat28 wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
I don't disagree with you, but I know of many people that use T6 5W-40 in their sportbikes because it's JASO-MA (or something like that) certified and it becomes a pretty heated topic on that forum. I've used it once in my own bike, but it seems to break down quickly when riding aggressively like at a trackday...I stick to Motul 300v 5W-40 w/ an OEM oil filter personally.
Also, is there an oil filter thread?...since type 1's had no filter, I have no idea which filter will match the flow rate of the oil pump and obviously I don't want to starve it. |
Hey! We must be cousins or something! I also use Motul 5W-40 Specific in my Golf Diesel. I've been contemplating on using it in my Bug but I've been leaning more towards Brad Penn so that I'll have enough ZDDP using 0W-30 for winter. As far as filters go, I've been using Mann or Mahle filters with no problems.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
Lets just see some proof that a Diesel oil that also carries an SM/SN rating shouldn't be used in a gasoline engine. Internet heresy doesn't count. |
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cbrkat28
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2015
Posts: 6
Location: Dallas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
I don't disagree with you, but I know of many people that use T6 5W-40 in their sportbikes because it's JASO-MA (or something like that) certified and it becomes a pretty heated topic on that forum. I've used it once in my own bike, but it seems to break down quickly when riding aggressively like at a trackday...I stick to Motul 300v 5W-40 w/ an OEM oil filter personally.
Also, is there an oil filter thread?...since type 1's had no filter, I have no idea which filter will match the flow rate of the oil pump and obviously I don't want to starve it. |
Hey! We must be cousins or something! I also use Motul 5W-40 Specific in my Golf Diesel. I've been contemplating on using it in my Bug but I've been leaning more towards Brad Penn so that I'll have enough ZDDP using 0W-30 for winter. As far as filters go, I've been using Mann or Mahle filters with no problems. |
I've always had good experience with Motul products and I have a buddy (it's actually the person I bought my Super Beetle from) that takes an equal stance but with Amsoil...I like the 300v because the lime green color makes it really easy to catch any engine issues (on bikes that have an oil sight window instead of dipsticks) but otherwise I don't get into oil arguments because it's like talking politics and since my experience with AC type 1's is quite limited, I'm taking a statistical approach.
_________________
1994 Lexus LS400 supercharged (sold)
2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5i (totaled not at fault)
2004 Hyundai Elantra GLS (totaled, not at fault)
2011 Honda CBR250R (sold)
2010 Honda CBR600RR C-ABS (sold
2012 Honda Civic Si (worst purchase ever)
1971 Volkswagen 1302 (sold) |
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cbrkat28
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2015
Posts: 6
Location: Dallas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
Lets just see some proof that a Diesel oil that also carries an SM/SN rating shouldn't be used in a gasoline engine. Internet heresy doesn't count. |
It might be heresay from where you're sitting and that's completely understandable because a Honda CBR600RR is absolutely nothing like a AC VW; my bike has a wet clutch, which is different, and the engine and transmission share the same fluid, which is also different...so it's plausibly an application anomaly, but if you would like to see for yourself the forum is 600rr.net and it won't take long to see all the threads on the subject.
There's a lot of products which should not be used, but marketing has an innate ability to counter reason and squelch logic.
_________________
1994 Lexus LS400 supercharged (sold)
2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5i (totaled not at fault)
2004 Hyundai Elantra GLS (totaled, not at fault)
2011 Honda CBR250R (sold)
2010 Honda CBR600RR C-ABS (sold
2012 Honda Civic Si (worst purchase ever)
1971 Volkswagen 1302 (sold) |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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So, I was curious about what Pennzoil would recommend or say was ok to use for our flat tappet, air cooled VW engines. I told them I'd just bought their yellow SM rated oil and if it would be ok to use for my classic VW. The attached letter from their technical department was their reply.
There's been a lot of debate about using "diesel" oil in our engines. I guess this will add more fuel to the fire.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| cbrkat28 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| cbrkat28 wrote: |
Since this thread was started almost a decade ago and things have changed in the auto world, I was wondering how many people run Rotella T6 5W-40 and which oil filter best matches the flow rate of the oil pump?...assume it's a 26mm
Thanks in advance! |
Go back and read the last 15-20 pages. The EPA and Fed Gov't have changed the regulations. You should no longer use Rotella diesel engine oils in gasoline automobile engines. |
Lets just see some proof that a Diesel oil that also carries an SM/SN rating shouldn't be used in a gasoline engine. Internet heresy doesn't count. |
It might be heresay from where you're sitting and that's completely understandable because a Honda CBR600RR is absolutely nothing like a AC VW; my bike has a wet clutch, which is different, and the engine and transmission share the same fluid, which is also different...so it's plausibly an application anomaly, but if you would like to see for yourself the forum is 600rr.net and it won't take long to see all the threads on the subject.
There's a lot of products which should not be used, but marketing has an innate ability to counter reason and squelch logic. |
Okay, I read a bunch of threads on 600rr.net. Sounds like a lot of people have a lot of luck running Rotella T6, which is a synthetic "Diesel" oil. In the smattering of threads I read over I didn't see any proof at all that a SM/SN rated "Diesel" oil shouldn't be used in a bike. |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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How about the following Pennzoil? No info on ZDDP amounts but I'm going to garner that it isn't classified in the same realm as a standard SN rated oil. I'd imagine the HD 30 & HD 40 oils aren't required to have the lower ZDDP amounts as well.
Pennzoil Marine® 4-Cycle Heavy Duty Engine Oil provides:
Outstanding protection for diesel and 4-cycle inboard/outboard gasoline engines in marine environments
High viscosity and film strength for protection in high-speed/high-load applications
Good TBN retention to help reduce corrosive wear
Meets or exceeds requirements of API service CI-4/SL CF-4, CF-2, CF/SJ
Pennzoil Marine® Heavy Duty Engine Oil for use in the following marine engines:
Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Caterpillar, Cummins, Mack, Mercury, Detroit Diesel, Volvo, Perkins, Yanmar, Indmar
Available Viscosity Grades include: SAE 40, SAE 15W-40
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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davidhonhon
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| After I'm finished with my engine upgraded/rebuild should I continue to use 15W/40 it'll have about 2200cc and I live in Washington so year round it stays cool |
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Bruit
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2016
Posts: 34
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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So.... anyone working on a CliffNotes summary of this 197 page topic? 
Something just really, really dumbed down and concise.
Or maybe just a current list of acceptable recommendations, like this list a previous poster linked:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-perfor...1572367505
Or, can we just use this list for those of us unable to grasp the full breadth of this thread? |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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Good find, the last link of the three is really helpful |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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Thank you. I found them on the Pelicanparts.com site. Page 103 of the "Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils" thread. I see that there are many Porsche guys who have chosen the diesel oils for their expensive engines.
Bill |
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Bruit
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2016
Posts: 34
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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I've been reading through here over and over and I think I am becoming overwhelmed with the variety of differences of opinions. Maybe if I ask some questions someone can help me better understand. Let me start with a more recent post:
Question Part A:
So it seems Chevron Delo 400 LE is acceptable for both diesel and gasoline engines then. It's CJ-4 (some diesel rating I don't know anything about yet) and also API SL and API SM rated? But what about the commenters that post warnings to not use diesel oils in gasoline engines. Are these warnings related to diesel-only rated oils or also includes ones that are dual rated?
Question Part B:
Is ZDDP important just during the break-in period of a new motor, or afterwards as well? I find myself getting confused reading through this since the context sometimes gets lost when reading multiple replies from multiple posters. My understanding is high levels 1200 ppm - 1600ppm is what is wanted for break-in, and after that ....I'm lost, is 1200ppm - 1600ppm is still desirable?
Question Part C:
People talk about zinc levels, and on product spec sheets companies state zinc in ppm or %. Are there other molecules present in oil that contain zinc? If so, then should we be looking at measures of ZDDP levels and not just zinc (ZDDP being the compound of interest, and zinc being just an atom that makes up one piece of a possible number of different molecules)?
Question Part D:
Why do we only discuss at ZDDP? Are there not other chemical compounds that functionally similar ie. prevent wear, scuff,etc that play a role in the performance of an oil?
Last edited by Bruit on Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bruit
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2016
Posts: 34
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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...and Question E:
Am I overthinking this? |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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| Bruit wrote: |
...and Question E:
Am I overthinking this? |
197 pages and you wonder if you're overthinking it?  I don't think there's a clear answer to be had!
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic |
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Here's my understanding on the new oils being sold at the local auto parts stores. It's NOT for our flat tappet engines. It doesn't have enough zddp in it because the oils are being used in catalytic converter cars.
The oils that do have enough ZDDP and potassium in it off the top of my head are-
VR1 racing oil
Brad Penn oil
Shell rotella diesel/gas oil.
There are others but I simply run 10-30 Shell Rotella and have for years w/excellent results. I had an email exchange with Shell about that Rotella for flat tappet VW engines. He was very up to speed on the requirements for these engines and said the Rotella will work perfect as it has the correct additives in it for our application.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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