Author |
Message |
NOVA Airhead Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005 Posts: 5221 Location: Richmond, VA
|
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Why not Fuel Injection? |
|
|
It seems every Ghia with a modified engine has a carb fuel delivery system. While I have seen a couple of throttle body FI systems being sold, I have not seen anything that is a direct injection set-up.
Aside from the expense, it seems to me this would be the ideal set-up for performance and fuel economy although I have to admit that I am no expert when it comes to this area. It also seems this would solve any hood clearance issues with a carb set up on a Ghia
How come there doesn't seem to be any type of direct injected set-up? In my opinion, the throttle body set up doesn't give you much over a carb, except for a lot more complexity and expense. _________________ Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
|
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There was a Ghia for sale recently that had a Type 4 FI engine in it. I asked the seller about it and he replied that he used a Type 3 throttle body and rigged up some ductwork for the sensors. I've been toying with a Type 4 engine in a Ghia for quite some time as I don't care for carbs. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
moon-dawg Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2006 Posts: 102 Location: So. Lebanon, Ohio
|
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The expense is high for Injection systems verus using a couple of carbs.
If you want you can roll your own system using MegaSquirt efi controller and Type 4 FI components.
check out the performance forum and there are also some success stories on the MegaSquirt Forum.
http://www.msefi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14030&view=next
I plan to do it in a year or so when I get my Ghia rolling. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Banzai KG Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2004 Posts: 2992 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
There's a guy here in San Jose that has a '68 Ghia that's using a CIS Fuel Injection system from a Rabbit. Did a great job at setting it up, looks pretty trick too.
Next time he stops by at our weekly Thursday nite BLTN VW meets, I will take pictures of his Ghia. _________________ Jim Kikuchi
Sunnyvale (near San Jose), CA
1964 Karmann Ghia coupe
V.V.W.C.A. - Golden Gate Chapter: http://www.ggcvvwca.org/
B.L.T.N. (Better Late Than Never) late model VW Club (San Jose/Santa Clara, CA): https://www.facebook.com/groups/bltnvw/
NorCal Aircooled Group (NAG) Facebook Goup: https://www.facebook.com/groups/NAGVW/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
|
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
FI from a Rabbit? Wow, I'd like to see a write up on that as well as pictures and diagrams. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rescue912 Ferdinand Sanford
Joined: March 25, 2004 Posts: 484 Location: Indiana
|
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a complete detailed description from Piledriver over on STF of how he converted a type 4 to CIS with either a Rabbit or Scirocco fuel distributor and other stock bits & bobs.
In a 914 he told me he gets 45+ MPG and excellent throttle response. I'll see if I can get permission to post his logbook.
I have a CIS system off of a GTI sitting in mothballs that I have been wanting to do the same sorta thing with... _________________ Beauty is in the eye of the key holder ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rescue912 Ferdinand Sanford
Joined: March 25, 2004 Posts: 484 Location: Indiana
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
moon-dawg Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2006 Posts: 102 Location: So. Lebanon, Ohio
|
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? |
|
|
NOVA Ghia Owner wrote: |
It seems every Ghia with a modified engine has a carb fuel delivery system. While I have seen a couple of throttle body FI systems being sold,.... |
I have commited to using EFI and have done some research on the Internet. What I found was that those that have done it have used Fuel Injection from 1975 to 1979 Beetles. They found those systems at junk yards...
I looked on Samba and sure enough there was a complete system so I bought it for $200...Too bad you will have to wait until the next one comes along
I found a guy named Theo on the MegaSquirt Forum that injected his Ghia. He said that it is now more responsive at low RPMs than running dual carbs and stays at 14.7:1 AFR over the entire RPM range. His Carbs would not do that. He is using a direct port system from Mexican Beetles which cost him $600 from a Mexico Ebay'er. He is using the MegaSquirt for his controller and has recently added a Turbo. He is having fun
I can't wait to get mine on the road.
Here is a link to Theo's Ghia:
http://www.theodata.com/Ghia.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NOVA Airhead Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005 Posts: 5221 Location: Richmond, VA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cool Stuff. This is exactly what I am looking for. It all fits nicely in the engine compartment too! _________________ Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
moon-dawg Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2006 Posts: 102 Location: So. Lebanon, Ohio
|
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
NOVA Ghia Owner wrote: |
Cool Stuff. This is exactly what I am looking for. It all fits nicely in the engine compartment too! |
If you have deep pockets, CB Performace sells a true port injected setup for $1800.00. But they also sell the castings so that you can roll your own EFI system.
Here is a link to the Castings and Fuel rail:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=320
They have a great tech article on FI installation and tunning
http://www.cbperformance.com/ultracomp.asp
Last edited by moon-dawg on Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
westcoast-paul Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2006 Posts: 822 Location: CanadaYaHoser
|
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Two words: Megasquirt and streetbike.
I've come from a watercooled racing background and streetbike throttle bodies (42mm from a CBR f4i)would be perfect on a 1776. hyiabusa (sp=?) ones are monsters and can easily power 400+hp.
these can be had for $50-150usd on ebay all the time.
megasquirt can be bought pre-made (or make your own) for $300
figure double that for adaptors for the TB, sensors, install misc. and you have a wicked adjustable true EFI setup for as cheap as they come. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Electric Wizard Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2003 Posts: 2846 Location: Smyrna, TN
|
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think that the f4i throttle bodies are itb's, and you would want a port injection for a flat four right?
If you had a throttle body injection, that would limit you to bank firing for your fuel injection setup right?
Do you know if they make a street bike setup that would allow for port injection on a bunged manifold? _________________ "Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know."
~ Cullen Hightower
(T)exas (C)oalition (B)uses
(H)eidenhammer (B)ully (B)oyz
--1966 De Luxe Camper |
|
Back to top |
|
|
westcoast-paul Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2006 Posts: 822 Location: CanadaYaHoser
|
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yes - there are 4 TB's on a 4 banger - making it ITB vs. 1 TB on a 4 banger.
the perfect setup for a flat 4 would be TB's of a v-4. they would be already broken into two sets of two (vs most other streetbikes being transverse mounted 4's).
it should be a pretty straight forward setup involving custom manifolds (nothing that hard), injectors/rails, electric fuel pump, sensors and misc wiring/plumbing. plus the actual brain (megasquirt n spark) _________________ - Paul |
|
Back to top |
|
|
darksyde Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2006 Posts: 37 Location: Torrance, CA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
would you be able to get a 914 FI setup to work in a ghia, given that everything is complete? i know the you can make anything work if you got the money but how hard would it be to convert the 914 setup to fit the ghia? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3930 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
alex77 Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2006 Posts: 346 Location: Tijuana
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
darksyde wrote: |
would you be able to get a 914 FI setup to work in a ghia, given that everything is complete? i know the you can make anything work if you got the money but how hard would it be to convert the 914 setup to fit the ghia? |
Hard as the manifolds etc won't fit. If you used the FI stuff off a 75-79 Beetle and used the Djet stuff off a 914 it would work fine. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trelms Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 248 Location: Denver
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? |
|
|
OP:
this dude sells all options, Tb injection, or intake manifold injection in kit form.
http://www.thedubshop.net/#!products/c17av
even that lowbudget turbo guy sells a EFI TB system
very cheap if you ask me. Ive played with different stand alone systems...
Thing is, carbs run fine if you dont mess with them. So does EFI.
You have to pay to play.. people are cheap. REAL EFI isnt sitting at the junk yard waiting to be bolted up....neither is a turbo kit. _________________ '74 Ghia Vert SOLD |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|