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Why not Fuel Injection?
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Why not Fuel Injection? Reply with quote

It seems every Ghia with a modified engine has a carb fuel delivery system. While I have seen a couple of throttle body FI systems being sold, I have not seen anything that is a direct injection set-up.

Aside from the expense, it seems to me this would be the ideal set-up for performance and fuel economy although I have to admit that I am no expert when it comes to this area. It also seems this would solve any hood clearance issues with a carb set up on a Ghia

How come there doesn't seem to be any type of direct injected set-up? In my opinion, the throttle body set up doesn't give you much over a carb, except for a lot more complexity and expense.
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Gary
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a Ghia for sale recently that had a Type 4 FI engine in it. I asked the seller about it and he replied that he used a Type 3 throttle body and rigged up some ductwork for the sensors. I've been toying with a Type 4 engine in a Ghia for quite some time as I don't care for carbs.
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moon-dawg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The expense is high for Injection systems verus using a couple of carbs.

If you want you can roll your own system using MegaSquirt efi controller and Type 4 FI components.

check out the performance forum and there are also some success stories on the MegaSquirt Forum.

http://www.msefi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14030&view=next

I plan to do it in a year or so when I get my Ghia rolling.
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Banzai KG
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a guy here in San Jose that has a '68 Ghia that's using a CIS Fuel Injection system from a Rabbit. Did a great job at setting it up, looks pretty trick too.
Next time he stops by at our weekly Thursday nite BLTN VW meets, I will take pictures of his Ghia.
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Gary
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FI from a Rabbit? Wow, I'd like to see a write up on that as well as pictures and diagrams.
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Rescue912
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a complete detailed description from Piledriver over on STF of how he converted a type 4 to CIS with either a Rabbit or Scirocco fuel distributor and other stock bits & bobs.

In a 914 he told me he gets 45+ MPG and excellent throttle response. I'll see if I can get permission to post his logbook.

I have a CIS system off of a GTI sitting in mothballs that I have been wanting to do the same sorta thing with...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pile's logbook ... http://www.rescue912.com/articles/cis-pile/
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moon-dawg
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? Reply with quote

NOVA Ghia Owner wrote:
It seems every Ghia with a modified engine has a carb fuel delivery system. While I have seen a couple of throttle body FI systems being sold,....


I have commited to using EFI and have done some research on the Internet. What I found was that those that have done it have used Fuel Injection from 1975 to 1979 Beetles. They found those systems at junk yards...

I looked on Samba and sure enough there was a complete system so I bought it for $200...Too bad you will have to wait until the next one comes along Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I found a guy named Theo on the MegaSquirt Forum that injected his Ghia. He said that it is now more responsive at low RPMs than running dual carbs and stays at 14.7:1 AFR over the entire RPM range. His Carbs would not do that. He is using a direct port system from Mexican Beetles which cost him $600 from a Mexico Ebay'er. He is using the MegaSquirt for his controller and has recently added a Turbo. He is having fun Smile

I can't wait to get mine on the road.

Here is a link to Theo's Ghia:

http://www.theodata.com/Ghia.html
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Stuff. This is exactly what I am looking for. It all fits nicely in the engine compartment too!
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moon-dawg
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVA Ghia Owner wrote:
Cool Stuff. This is exactly what I am looking for. It all fits nicely in the engine compartment too!


If you have deep pockets, CB Performace sells a true port injected setup for $1800.00. But they also sell the castings so that you can roll your own EFI system.

Here is a link to the Castings and Fuel rail:

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=320

They have a great tech article on FI installation and tunning

http://www.cbperformance.com/ultracomp.asp


Last edited by moon-dawg on Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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westcoast-paul
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two words: Megasquirt and streetbike.

I've come from a watercooled racing background and streetbike throttle bodies (42mm from a CBR f4i)would be perfect on a 1776. hyiabusa (sp=?) ones are monsters and can easily power 400+hp.
these can be had for $50-150usd on ebay all the time.

megasquirt can be bought pre-made (or make your own) for $300

figure double that for adaptors for the TB, sensors, install misc. and you have a wicked adjustable true EFI setup for as cheap as they come.
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Mr. Electric Wizard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the f4i throttle bodies are itb's, and you would want a port injection for a flat four right?
If you had a throttle body injection, that would limit you to bank firing for your fuel injection setup right?
Do you know if they make a street bike setup that would allow for port injection on a bunged manifold?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes - there are 4 TB's on a 4 banger - making it ITB vs. 1 TB on a 4 banger.

the perfect setup for a flat 4 would be TB's of a v-4. they would be already broken into two sets of two (vs most other streetbikes being transverse mounted 4's).

it should be a pretty straight forward setup involving custom manifolds (nothing that hard), injectors/rails, electric fuel pump, sensors and misc wiring/plumbing. plus the actual brain (megasquirt n spark)
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darksyde
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would you be able to get a 914 FI setup to work in a ghia, given that everything is complete? i know the you can make anything work if you got the money but how hard would it be to convert the 914 setup to fit the ghia?
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easy e
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? Reply with quote

Has anybody used a '75-'79 FI beetle engine in a ghia?
Will the deck lid close?
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? Reply with quote

This guy did a mexibeetle 1600i on his ghia

http://www.darrylsgarage.com/67ghia/67ghia.htm
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darksyde wrote:
would you be able to get a 914 FI setup to work in a ghia, given that everything is complete? i know the you can make anything work if you got the money but how hard would it be to convert the 914 setup to fit the ghia?


Hard as the manifolds etc won't fit. If you used the FI stuff off a 75-79 Beetle and used the Djet stuff off a 914 it would work fine.
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trelms
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Why not Fuel Injection? Reply with quote

OP:
this dude sells all options, Tb injection, or intake manifold injection in kit form.

http://www.thedubshop.net/#!products/c17av

even that lowbudget turbo guy sells a EFI TB system

very cheap if you ask me. Ive played with different stand alone systems...

Thing is, carbs run fine if you dont mess with them. So does EFI.

You have to pay to play.. people are cheap. REAL EFI isnt sitting at the junk yard waiting to be bolted up....neither is a turbo kit.
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